Talk: 10mm pistol

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Untitled[]

The 10mm pistol doesn't have a fucking cylinder, it's obviously a semiautomatic. Nowhere in Fallout have I heard it called a revolver. - Phae

It has a cylinder, look at the external links - the first one is the cover of the comic book the gun is copied from, where the cylinder is clearly visible (and if you look closely, it's also visible on the in-game image), the other is an in-depth discussion of it. Ausir 10:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Price[]

Where did the price figures came from? PS In-game price of the item depends on - (1)type of the item (for this case - 10mm pistol),(2) trader interacting with character,(3) characters values of Charisma and Trading Skill+some perks, so it could differ when last 2 parameters differ —Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The buying price differs based on your Barter skill, but the selling price is always the same. Ausir 10:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Shansei C96[]

What's the basis for calling the Chinese Pistol the Shansei C96? I haven't heard that before. If it's just a real-life reference it should probably be removed. Kris mailbox 13:16, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Vegas[]

The 10mm is in New Vegas. It shows up in a couple gameplay videos (Most notably this one from GameFest in Spain) Shouldn't there be a page for it? --70.72.172.87 19:53, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Fallout 410mm different model then fallout 3?[]

I've not seen anything is game yet to confirm it, but by appearance alone it seems like the 10mm in fallout 4 is a different model then the one in 3 and NV. —Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

It's still the same N99, put the Hardened Receiver on the handgun and it'll look like the Fallout 3 10mm Pistol Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:45, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

How Do You Use A Pistol On Xbox 360?[]

How Do We Use Pistols In Fallout 3 Xbox 360 —Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Silenced 10mm[]

I get that Fallout 3 is the only game with a 10mm pistol explicitly called "Silenced 10mm pistol", but shouldn't the suppressor mods for the Fallout: New Vegas, Fallout 4, and Fallout 76 be mentioned? Aiden4017 (talk) 05:36, August 4, 2020 (UTC)

At the very least, NV's pistol should be mentioned because they are both N99s, with the NV weapon mod essentially making them the exact same weapon. But the F4/76 variant has enough modification options which radically change the performance, that it would probably be best left as just a mention in the "Combat pistol" section. For that reason, it might make sense to have a second accompanying image for the combat pistol which has more modifications than only the base components, to highlight how different two of the "same" combat pistols can be. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 07:09, August 4, 2020 (UTC)

10mm pistol[]

The Fallout 4/76 variant has unsupported speculation in bold, which should be removed:

The 10mm combat pistol[7] is a next-generation 10mm sidearm created before the Great War. While it is a different design from the N99, it can be transformed into something similar.[8] One of the key differences is a slide release lever, automatically locking the slide back when the weapon runs dry.[9]

Available to both government and civilian clients, the combat pistol could be fitted with an automatic receiver, turning it into a machine pistol, as well as a variety of optics (including high-tech recon scopes), suppressors and other accessories to improve its performance. This flexibility came at a cost, as the combat pistol required more expensive machining and materials than the N99.[10]

Combat pistol is missing links to Fallout 4/76 pages. Missing unique variants like the Gen-4 10mm pistol and Anti-Scorched training pistol.

Colt 6520 is missing links to Ultimatum.

Deliverer is missing links to Silver sidearm

 • Non-10mm pistols

Weapons that aren't named 10mm pistol shouldn't be listed here for the same reason we don't put all the rifles using 5.56 ammo on the same page. Chinese pistols should be moved to their own page, Deliverer should get its own page and the zip gun can be moved to a pipe gun overview because it is literally a wooden pipegun.

If we aren't going to move them, then the Crusader pistol and friends need to be moved here too.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

The page is meant as an overview of all pistols that take 10mm, and I agree that the crusader pistol should be here too. I believe the creation club pistol are in the main box, but should also be added to the paragraph sections below. I think next-generation is a bit much a of a descriptor as well, but I think the other sentence you highlighted is an fine conclusion based on gameplay and modifications for 4's 10mm. Devastating Dave^{ZIP ZAP RAP} 01:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the outright made up statement about the expense and materials of the N99 can and should be removed. Simply counting the number of mods available would make the pipe guns from Fallout 76 among the most exquisite and prestigious high-end weapons of all time.

intrepid3597/23/24 [9:27pm]

I've removed the sentence about machining costs, but I'm leaving the mention of next-generation in, unless you can provide instances in which current-gen (N99 and Colt 6520) pistols can mount recon scopes or reflex sights or be modified to fully-automatic. Tägäżïël 10:30, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

It's unfair to judge weapons by the amount of mods they have because, unlike combat pistol, N99 and Colt 6520 appear in games where weapons either can't be modded or there are very few weapon mods available. Raptormoses (talk) 10:41, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

10mm Combat Pistol is N99[]

I would like to review the designation for the 10mm pistol as seen in FO4 and FO76. It is my belief that the 10mm pistol we see in FO3/NV is the same pistol we see in FO4/76.

As with any new title in gaming, most assets are remade from scratch to reflect improvements in system technology. In addition to texture fidelity, models are updated to increase polycount - which translates to more detailing. As a rule of thumb, older appearances will always have fewer details than a newer appearance. Click to see an example from another franchise, the BFG from DOOM.

Art design[]

Commentary from the art designers defines the base configuration as being the main deviation from the appearance in Fallout 3. With the new weapon modification system, the art team was able to bring in many new designs that were not possible in Fallout 3. This also means that they had to make adjustments. In Fallout 3, there was no Aim Down Sights feature, nor were there weapon mods (silencer was a standalone weapon model). When adding in sight modifications, the iron sight on the tip of the barrel proves problematic for fine-tuning sight alignment for each barrel length. It also conflicts with the new recon scope they wanted to show off, wouldn't it look just silly sitting on the tip? Because of this, they standardized the sights slot to attach to the receiver model on every single weapon in the game. This allows them to incorporate more barrel and sight models without spending exponentially more time fine-tuning to correct bugs.

In addition, they Concept Art reveals the weapon is, in fact, a different approach to the same weapon seen in Fallout 3. They include how equipping specific mods will recreate the nostalgic weapon. This mod is the Long Barrel. Returning to the original statement, the weapon is "very similar" because it has been improved graphically to include more details and gizmos. If it was the exact same, they would have reminded the artist that this game is coming out on the Xbox One, not the Xbox 360.

In the context of The Art of Fallout 4, it is a fair assumption that they are talking about the out-of-universe design for the weapon, rather than the in-universe lore details. If a gun is 99% similar and is literally called the same thing, its safer to say it's supposed to be the same gun than to not. In short, the Art Book commentary was taken way too literally.

Narrative design[]

From a lore standpoint, the presence of a more sophisticated, yet equally abundant 10mm pistol model directly conflicts with the narrative we are given in Fallout 3, which names it the standard-issue sidearm. Terminal entries in the Citadel describe the planned successor the N99 as a future model of the AEP7 laser pistol. Why do we see military skeletons with 10mm combat pistols all the time in FO4/76 if the N99 was their standard sidearm? Inversely, if we were to assume the Combat pistol was the N80, why would this extremely modifiable and user-friendly model be considered inferior to less user-friendly weapon? Why would it be abundantly around if it was supposedly phased out in 2051?

The lack of mods for the Fallout 3 pistol were due to the weapon modification system not being developed. The lack of repair narrative in Fallout 4 were due to the weapon durability system being removed. It returns in Fallout 76, where the weapon is one of the most basic firearms in the game, with cheap repair costs and requiring the most basic rank of Gunsmith, if at all, to modifiy.

According to a dialog exchange in Fallout 3^[1], the chamber is cleared by a mechanism that slides back. This is exactly what happens during the reload animation for the version in FO4/FO76, which our article claims to be primary feature distinguishing it from the N99.

Canon name[]

The wiki-endorsed name, "10mm Combat Pistol", comes from an extremely dubious terminal^[2] that is littered with typos:

• Stimpack (twice) - instead of Stimpak
• Clean Water (twice) - instead of Purified water
• Abraxo Cleanser - instead of Abraxo cleaner
• Man-Portable Minigun - instead of Minigun
• Fat Man Nuke Round - instead of Mini nuke

Why is "10mm combat pistol" considered an accurate designation, when the other deviations are considered errors?

Conclusion[]

These are the same gun. It got an extremely minor graphical overhaul to look more presentable on newer tech and to be fully supported by the modification system. The 10mm pistol we see in Gamebryo engine is the Long Barrel 10mm pistol we see in Creation engine.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 02:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

---

Discussion[]

They may look visually identical, and the combat pistol name is extremely flimsy I will agree, but it's also never called a N99. You can modify a combat shotgun in Fallout 4 to resemble Fallout 3's combat shotgun, but it doesn't make them the same gun. Also, even with the long barrel modification, while it makes the side profile nearly identical the overall profile of the gun is completely different from a N99. Aiden4017 (talk) 02:26, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Re: "The wiki endorsed name, '10mm Combat Pistol,'" I believe the names on the terminal are non-standard because they are Brotherhood naming conventions. That's not what Bethesda calls them... it's what the Brotherhood of Steel calls them.

intrepid3597/23/24 [9:27pm]

Either way, outside of the side profile the guns have entirely different profiles. The N99 is a very squared design, whereas the combat pistol is a much more rounded design with plenty of lightening cuts and curved edges. They have entirely different grip angles and profiles, and while we don't have a official name for it, I'm certain that the combat pistol is a different model to the N99. Aiden4017 (talk)

That's correct. It is not explicitly referred to as N99 anywhere in FO4/76. I would like to also point out that FONV also fails to call it the N99. Why do we make an exception for FONV and FO Shelter, where it is only called 10mm?
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 06:26, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Your correct, neither is called a N99 in game, but the New Vegas 10mm pistol reuses the N99 10mm's model from 3, the 4/76 10mm pistol can be modified to look like it from the side. I'm not quite sure about Fallout Shelter, but I think one of the 10mm pistol variants in that game is described as the same one as that used by the Lone Wanderer, which would imply it's a N99. Aiden4017 (talk) 07:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

This discussion has been going on for a while, but it's based on what's - essentially - an elaborate argument that we shouldn't listen to the developers and disregard their explicit statement that the Fo4 version is a different design that can be customized to create something that merely looks similar to the Fo3 version. Given that Bethesda is perfectly capable of recreating designs accurately when increasing graphical fidelity (the AER9 and the urban plasma rifle come to mind), claiming that it's the same gun based on the superficial similarity of the long barrel mod is baseless. It's essentially arguing that Beretta M1951 is the same gun as the Beretta 92 because they look similar.

From a lore standpoint, this doesn't quite match up either: The N99 is a design that's 26 years old in 2077 and has subtly different mechanics. It requires racking the slide to chamber the first round from a fresh magazine. The combat pistol instead has an automatically locking slide when the weapon is dry, befitting a military-grade firearm. Then there are the aforementioned different ergonomics and design details (plus, the design is completely different without the aftermarket long barrel mod). I would agree that it's related to the N99, as eg. its successor, but I don't see there's basis to claim it's exactly the same gun.

Also, re: Brotherhood naming: The only typo is in stimpack (which is actually called "stimulation delivery package", so it's not actually a type). The rest are synonyms accurate to the game. I'm particularly surprised by trying to call the "man-portable minigun" design in error. In what way is it an error? The Brotherhood has mounted and man-portable miniguns in service, so this is an example of accuracy. Tägäżïël 11:10, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

What I am trying to explain is that fictional weapons are not bound to the same rules as weapons thar exist in the real world. They can re-imagine it all they want and at the end of the day, it's still the 10mm pistol. Speculating that it was replaced due to age is in conflict with the terminal entry in Fallout 3. The wiki accepts that the Minigun in Fo4/76 is the same as the previous iteration, despite a visual overhaul and no explicit lore citation.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 17:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Which is the working assumption based on the Avenger in Fo2 and FNV. However, in this case we have an explicit statement from the devs that the 10mm pistol in Fo4 is a different design. Like, no matter how much you try, that's something you can't get around. Tägäżïël 18:21, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

If the developers had intended for the 10mm pistol to be separate entity, they would have worded the Art Book to read something like this:

For example, if they wanted it to be a separate weapon called combat pistol, we would be using an item called "Combat Pistol," not dissimilar to the distinction between (R91) Assault Rifle and Combat Rifle.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 22:37, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

It really just seems like the difference between a Beretta M92 and Beretta M92 Vertec to me. Same base design but altered slightly with not entirely the same features and compatible parts. All that's really said of the guns in the game is that both are chambered in 10mm. Great Mara (talk) 23:04, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Bethesda has never included the full name of a weapon in its in-game name, its almost always the round its chambered for and the weapon type. They don't call them N99's, R91's, DKS-501's, or Type 17's, so why should they have started that with Fallout 4? Besides even though they don't go into much detail, they still say in the art book its a different model of 10mm pistol. Aiden4017 (talk) 00:23, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I found the full transcription for the 10mm Art Book quote. Out of context, it does imply that the weapon may be a separate in-universe design. However, the full context describes fundamental changes to the base weapon rig were needed in order to flesh out the modification system - supporting the notion that the 10mm seen in FO4 is the same as FO3.

The full transcript:

This supports the idea that the weapon was redesigned to fit the new modification system, and that it is the same weapon.Scribe-Howard (waster_93) (talk) 23:47, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Not really. It provides more context, sure, but it still explicitly says the Fallout 4 10mm is a different design, nothing here says otherwise. To me, it's saying that they created a new 10mm that would better fit the weapon customisation system than the N99, rather than updated the N99. Aiden4017 (talk) 00:47, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

4 / 76?[]

Is there a reason the 4 and 76 models were split into two sections? They're literally the same 3d model with nearly identical stats; the only difference I can recall is the texture for the grip changing color and the default barrel being changed from short to long, which is nowhere near enough to constitute it being a separate weapon IMO. I looked at the edit history and without context of being a part of the discord, can I assume this is the result of some sort of debate about the cut reference to a Colt 6520 in V51 and the vague and since-removed "Combat Pistol" name we used for the 4 model? DirtyBlue929 (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)