Do not delete! This is supposed to be a central, overview article for Shady Sands, covering its history, evolution and role as the capital of the NCR, with two sister articles (Shady Sands (Fallout) and New California Republic (town)) covering its appearances on games. We really need a policy on that, though. Tagaziel(call!) 17:08, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
At the Sheriff's building the flag is of the United States not the NCR. Can't tell if its pre or post Commonwealths.
Does anyone know where Shady Sands would correspond in real life? Or the closest city next to it?
Brotherhood of Stealing?[]
Little thing. Why is this listed as BoS territory?
Definitive Merge[]
I petition that the following articles be merged: Shady Sands, Shady Sands (Fallout), and New California Republic (town). I propose the following article to take the place of all three: Shady Sands (Town) - pending possible dropping of the "(Town)" if merging is deemed acceptable. Wabango (talk) 01:43, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
Can't believe this hasn't been done in over two years. Yeah, this is a no-brainer merge.--DirtyBlue929 (talk) 16:17, September 15, 2019 (UTC)
I don't agree with this. Merging Shady Sands and Shady Sands (Fallout), ok we can look at that, but not with New California Republic (town). It becomes way too bulky, the overview of the town between the different games becomes lost. Also it's two different games/two different names, at least two different pages. Jspoel 17:58, September 15, 2019 (UTC)
I don't agree on that. Vault 13, Vault 15, and Mariposa Military Base are all merged for both of their appearances in the first two games, and look and read just fine. And the only other argument I've seen against it, that the location isn't called Shady Sands after Fallout 1, just seems pedantic - it's called Shady Sands in pretty much every non-Fallout 2 source. DirtyBlue929 (talk) 18:06, September 15, 2019 (UTC)
Actually, Vault 13, Vault 15, and Mariposa should be divided between two games, since their appearances are substantially different and so are their interactions. A third page would act as a lore overview, as is the case with Shady Sands. There's no real reason to keep them on one page tbh. Tagaziel(call!) 07:55, September 16, 2019 (UTC)
Edited the article to show what I mean - and what I wanted to achieve when I created it in the first place... Uhhh, eight years ago. Well, better late than never, no? Tagaziel(call!) 08:04, September 16, 2019 (UTC)
I'll remove the merge tags in a week. Nobody weighed in with the suggestion. Tagaziel(call!) 14:12, December 4, 2019 (UTC)
Sooo, remove the tags? No? Roger555 (talk) 22:12, February 7, 2020 (UTC)
Lord this is a delayed response but I have removed the merge tags. :) --L84teaWould you like a cup of tea? 22:17, February 7, 2020 (UTC)
"Shady Shores"?[]
I don't own any Wasteland Warfare materials; can anyone confirm whether it's actually stated that the town was renamed? It seems more likely to me that this is a case of a third-party licenced product accidentally getting a name wrong than new lore. --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 01:43, September 18, 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Though that still contradicts Fallout 2 and New Vegas, where it's still referred to as Shady Sands over a century after the founding of the Republic; it seems the writer just made this up. Makes me wonder how canon these materials are overall. --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 01:54, September 18, 2019 (UTC)
Given how most content is framed as "Accurate Circa Fallout 4" It might be assumed the time period is 2287 and it got a rename then. And regardless of if it is or isnt canon, its info that warrants mentioning. LovinglyGaslight (talk) 01:56, September 18, 2019 (UTC)
"Brotherhood Attack"[]
Here after a discussion with Tag on Bethcord this morning lol. TL;DR we don't know for certain why there was a Brotherhood Knight in the ruins of Shady Sands shortly after the nuke hit or how long exactly Maximus was hiding in the milk machine before emerging. Seen plenty of suggestion that they could have simply been dispatched to investigate the detonation, and I myself have pointed out that diplomatic channels are implied to still exist (given that in NV you can go over Moore's head and bring the Mojave Chapter to the negotiating table with her powerless to stop a ceasefire) meaning they could have been part of some kind of delegation sent to negotiate.
Would suggest a rewrite that removes the claim that Hank arrived and the nuke detonated "during a Brotherhood attack" (speculation, no matter how "obvious" it may seem) and instead something more along the lines of:
Following the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, Rose MacLean, an inhabitant of Vault 33 and husband of the Vault's overseer, Hank MacLean, discovered that the Vault's water supply was being siphoned by survivors on the surface, despite her husband's claims that civilization was dead outside the Vault. Feeling betrayed, she fled the Vault with her young children and settled in Shady Sands, where she tried to start a new life together with Lee Moldaver. Desperate to preserve the integrity of the Vault's experiment, overseer MacLean left the vault and confronted his wife. Failing to convince her to return, he abducted their children and left the city.
Shortly after the overseer and his children reached safety, a nuclear device was detonated in Shady Sands. The exact cause and circumstances of the bombing are unknown, though Lee Moldaver laid the blame directly at Hank MacLean. In any case, the city that once stood as the crown jewel of the NCR was reduced to little more than a crater and some charred ruins. Thousands were vaporized in the blast, many more killed by the heat and blastwave. Survivors of the blast were permanently scarred. In the immdiate aftermath, Knights from the Brotherhood of Steel could be seen combing the ruins, and took in at least one orphaned child who survived the blast as a recruit. [etc etc etc]
"^ (Note 2) According to a book seen in Shady Sands Elementary School, The New California Republic, the book was most recently checked out in 2276. This suggests that Shady Sands was originally written to be destroyed in 2277 but later retconned to take place after Fallout: New Vegas in an interview. This can be corroborated with Hank's story that Rose MacLean died during the Vault 33 famine of 2277."
I think this note is a bit too speculative. I don't think it's our place to say whether or not the original writers' intention was for it to have been destroyed in 2277 and then it was retconned later. The chalkboard sucks and is confusing, but that's precisely why we shouldn't make too many assumptions. LaymansReign (talk) 14:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
We also don't know how popular that book was. My wife's doctoral thesis used a book she checked out of the university library (Toruń, I believe), and the last person to check it out was one of the researchers she cited... Fifty years prior. Tagaziel☏ 16:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't disagree that technically speaking there isn't enough evidence to say that for absolute certain, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I consider the evidence this theory does have very compelling and that I honestly think it's accurate. We also know that Bethesda was very hands-off with the writing process; it's not unreasonable to think that the show's writers made some major research errors that nobody involved in the production wants to admit to for PR purposes.
Frankly, and this is purely speculative opinionating, I get the feeling more and more from reassessing the show's plot points, the evidence presented here, how they talked about the series in interviews before and after, and just sensing vibes that the writers' research on the west coast setting may have been limited to reading plot synopses and checking timelines of major events. I get the vibe that they knew and understood that the previous story in the setting:
Established NCR as having a food/water/electricity crisis that forced them to invade Nevada for Hoover Dam, and experiencing a massive economic downturn
Represented the NCR government almost exclusively through its military
Had the majority of its potential endings involve them being routed and defeated in some capacity, with Lonesome Road's potential for them getting nuked being of particular interest to them
And missed all the finer details that only really come out through character interactions, like Shady Sands being repeatedly referenced as the political core of the nation (characters talking about "the politicians back in Shady Sands", etc), the homefront being in a relatively peaceful and prosperous state despite its resource issues and the wars at its borders, the LA Boneyard (or at least Adytum) being a major center of industry and education, etc.
And so with only the broad strokes understanding of the setting and an incorrect assumption that the story probably doesn't get that deep into the details of the setting, they decided, "Hey, you know what would be a cool way to spice things up? Let's say Shady Sands got nuked a few years before New Vegas! That's why the nation's in a crisis and you only see their military, they're under martial law! What a fun retroactive explanation for something that surely wasn't explored in the videogame. And with how most of the endings go, we can continue the story by saying the NCR largely collapsed in the 15 years after that game!"
Then the show drops and fans start pointing out all the ways that this directly contradicts major details they missed in their research, and they have to face facts and either admit they messed up, or lean really, really hard on the very, very slim wiggle room they unintentionally left themselves through the phrasing on that chalkboard and try to retcon it and course correct in the next season. Former would be a PR disaster, shake investor/executive confidence in the project, and only add fuel to the fire of the online discourse, so they naturally picked the second one.
... but again, this is just a baseless theory that I had to get off my chest, lol. Circling back, yeah, I don't think we can say for certain yet barring some NDA-defying rebel from the production team spilling the beans with receipts, which is never gonna happen, but I do think it's worth noting how the show really strongly suggests that it happened in 2277 through more than just the chalkboard. DirtyBlue929 (talk) 18:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Tagaziel (call!) 17:08, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
17:58, September 15, 2019 (UTC)
