Forum:Updating Voting Requirements

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Howdy folks, how's tricks?

I was asked a simple question with a simple but not quite satisfactory answer today. The question was

It was asked by a user on Discussions. As it stands, our as written policy regarding voting on proposals and applications is

For a long time that simple policy has served us well, but I hasn't quite kept up with the times. The wiki has changed since then. There's new avenues of engaging with the wiki. I strongly believe that there should continue to be a requirement that a user must have an account to vote. But I would suggest we count discussions posts as an alternative to an edit for the purposes of establishing an account as legitimate for voting, at the very least when it comes to voting for extra rights users that will have rights on discussions (admin, crat, discussion mod, etc.).

Mind you it's entirely possible that this change has been made or suggested in the past but I haven't had much luck in finding out if the idea ever became more that something to discuss. Sure haven't been able to find a forum to vote on it.

Richie9999 (talk) 17:03, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

Comments, questions, concerns[]

That seems like a reasonable idea. I support it. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 17:19, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

Wouldn't a post on discussions already fulfill the posting requirement in the current rule? Great Mara (talk) 17:21, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking as well - at least one edit or post. Maybe the rule had blog posts in mind, but it's vague enough to include Discussions as well. AllYourFavorites! (talk) 17:37, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

The vagueness is what concerns me. I'd rather have it fully codified as it were so there is no confusion. No attempts to discount votes etc. and I wanna make sure that when the requirements are updated, if they get updated, that it's done proper not just me going in there and adding a word. The other part is even with post in there, I don't see anything pointing to that having been voted on. If there was a change in policy or the like it's something that needed to be voted on. Richie9999 (talk) 20:41, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

I thought this came up once before, possibly in the old security desk, but since it has been wiped, whatever consensus was reached then is lost now. I agree that discussion posts should be on par with edits for the purposes of voting eligibility and could be covered under the current language, even before it is clarified (which it should be and easily could be).

As Richie outlined, it seems appropriate to allow discussions users to vote on matters which would directly affect them and the aspect of the wiki they are associated with. The alternative would somewhat quizzically mean someone with a single edit 10 years ago, from a time before the discussions platform was a twinkle in some programmer's eye, has the ability to vote, with no restrictions, in the same petition where a user who frequents discussions, who may have hundreds of posts in the past month or thousands in the past year, cannot. Further, the old forums, which would have most definitely fallen under the scope of "posts", link to discussions as its successor, and it would seem equally misplaced to have allowed primarily social users of the past to vote at the exclusion of new primarily social users. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 11:04, July 20, 2020 (UTC)

The consensus has been to count either Discussions posts or wiki edits in any namespace prior to the start of the vote. (Interestingly, this is written as such at the bottom of the admin page but it doesn't mention "posts" on the policy page. The former is about voting for new policies; the latter about appointing new staff.) Lurkers should be able to vote too, since they may be affected by new policies and staff as well, so I don't think there's a need to change policy other than to clarify that both posts and edits count. I don't think we need a vote to implement that clarification. - FDekker ^(talk) 11:43, July 20, 2020 (UTC)

Believe me, Dekker, I noticed some of the same things as you pointed out. My main purpose with this forum was fully codifying this beyond a consensus achieved outside of the proper manner. If it's a policy change, it should be written down somewhere on the wiki in a manner that clearly shows it going through the proper steps. The fact that I couldn't find, when searching the forums, a thread that covered this discussion topic is the problem. Even if this forum (and the vote that I fully intend to put forward) just wind up being a rubber stamp on some language that was already put in at some point, it needs to be done and done properly. Towards your point, Dyre, I'm certain this has been discussed. But it hasn't been put out in the proper channels and it really should be. Richie9999 (talk) 21:01, July 20, 2020 (UTC)

I think that's a fair point. So in that case you would create a vote, probably within a few days from now, where you propose to change "edits" to "edits or posts" on the policy page? And then we'll have a record of the decision and you're content? (Don't read that in a passive-aggressive voice.)
- FDekker ^(talk) 14:02, July 22, 2020 (UTC)

Pretty much, following the standard procedure here, also, this forum in addition to being required prior to a vote on a policy change lets folks voice suggestions, concerns, etc. In the main post I mentioned that a post either counts equal as an edit or only counts in areas related to things impacting discussions. Something that could be discussed. But yes, in a few days this will move from a discussion to a proposal to be voted on. Richie9999 (talk) 20:48, July 22, 2020 (UTC)