Hello there, I'd like to move forward with the proposal for QOL improvements to the wiki, clarifying some of the extant rules. I've elected to not pursue the strategy or quest walkthrough changes, as per User:Gilpo1's feedback, and preparing a more involved breakthrough. Each of the proposals is accompanied by an example and a rationale for the proposed rule change, which hopefully will help give everyone a concrete point of reference for creating our content. 【Ｔａｇａｚｉｅｌ】 ☏ 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Proposal[]
Ledes[]
At minimum, the lead section should identify the article subject and the game it appears in. Template:In should be used to standardize formatting.
- Example: '''Tycho''' is a character and companion {{In|FO1}}.
- Example: Tycho is a character and companion in Fallout.
Long articles covering topics that appear in multiple games may be formatted as summaries, according to the Wikipedia Manual of Style.
Rationale: This is meant to clarify a vague layout guideline and provide a minimum standard to unify our current practice, which is a mix of lore-centric ledes in old articles and game-centric ledes in Fallout 76 articles. The "minimum" criteria is meant to acknowledge larger leading paragraphs without forcing them to be cut down.
Locations[]
For Location sections, introduce a standard format:
- * [[Location]]: Description of location.
- Example (Prototype UP77 "Limitless Potential"):
- University Point, University Credit Union: Inside the Credit Union bank vault, locked behind a Novice-locked terminal. The prototype is located inside a hidden compartment on the right-hand wall opened using a red button inside a Master-locked safe on the second row of the wall safes. The prototype is on the large table in the middle of the room.
Rationale: A common problem with location sections is that they are writted in loose prose, and the location is not highlighted properly. This simple guideline would organize locations so that the reader instantly knows which general area we are talking about, while the use of bulletpoints - even for uniques! - helps visually organize the data.
Additionally, can be grouped together by Loot/Merchants/Characters for multiple locations, to help find out how to get the item in question more easily. See here for an example.
Categorization[]
Finally, I'd like to clarify the categorization rules, which turned out to be self-contradicting in practice:
- A content page should be placed in all the categories to which it logically belongs.
- A content page should be placed in only the most specific category (or categories) out of a given branch of the category tree.”
This leads to odd categorization decisions, as Category:Fallout characters is virtually empty and most characters were moved to various subcategories, so while Ian might logically belong in that category, he isn't there, because the next rule was interpreted to mean he must be moved to the race sub-cat and kept there, and only there.
The change would be to alter the rule:
- A content page should be placed in all the categories to which it logically belongs, at minimum the work the subject appears in.
- If additional categories are applicable, the content page should be placed in the most specific category (or categories) of a given branch of the category tree.
And an example:
Ian is a human companion in Fallout, and should be categorized at minimum:
- By game (Fallout characters)
- By species (Fallout human characters)
- By type (Fallout companions)
And have additional categories reflecting his presence in other works. This is also something that can be reliably achieved by using the existing infoboxes to add autocategorization.
Votes[]
| ||||
- Voting
{{Yes}}
{{No}}
{{Neutral}}
Ledes[]
- 【Ｔａｇａｚｉｅｌ】 ☏ 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Changing vote to yes again FreshYoMama | Talk 14:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- The Appalachian
17:32, 11 January 2023 (UTC) - Agree with LR's point. Savior DJ (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- This isn't exactly a no, but the lede should still be in-universe and then use the game introduction. For example, "Arturo Rodriguez is a weapons merchant in Diamond City in Fallout 4," not "Arturo Rodriguez is a character in Fallout 4." LaymansReign (talk) 17:40, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- — Arcaneous
02:21, 12 January 2023 (UTC) - - I agree with LR's comment above but I still think this is a step in the right direction - Gilpo1 (talk) 04:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- UrbanAnge1 (talk) 10:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- TheGunny2.0 (talk) 23:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
- Agent c (talk) 12:38, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Locations[]
- 【Ｔａｇａｚｉｅｌ】 ☏ 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- FreshYoMama | Talk 15:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- The Appalachian 17:32, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Savior DJ (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- LaymansReign (talk) 17:40, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- — Arcaneous 02:21, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
- - Gilpo1 (talk) 04:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- UrbanAnge1 (talk) 10:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- TheGunny2.0 (talk) 23:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
- Agent c (talk) 12:38, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Categories[]
- 【Ｔａｇａｚｉｅｌ】 ☏ 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Changing vote to yes again FreshYoMama | Talk 14:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- The Appalachian 17:32, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Savior DJ (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Including both a category and a sub-category on a page is redundant. LaymansReign (talk) 17:40, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- That is the direct opposite of proper category branching. Great Mara (talk) 17:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- — Arcaneous 02:21, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
- - There's no reason to limit categories, especially if they make sense. No, you don't put a page in every branch in the tree, but you should at least have them at the top and the bottom.- Gilpo1 (talk) 04:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- UrbanAnge1 (talk) 10:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- TheGunny2.0 (talk) 23:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
- This appears to ruin the point of having a category tree. Agent c (talk) 12:39, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Excluded[]
Ledes[]
# User changed vote FreshYoMama | Talk 18:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC) 
FreshYoMama | Talk 15:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
# User changed vote FreshYoMama | Talk 14:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
changing my vote to neutral, i agree with LR that ledes should still be what we use now FreshYoMama | Talk 15:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Locations[]
Categories[]
# User changed vote FreshYoMama | Talk 18:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC) FreshYoMama | Talk 15:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
# User changed vote FreshYoMama | Talk 14:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
changing my vote to no, having both Fallout characters and Fallout human characters is redundent FreshYoMama | Talk 15:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Comments[]
Regarding category branching: The current system is the opposite of proper category branching. I'll reference Wikipedia, since that has a ton of experience in these affairs, and the "defining characteristic" criteria is very useful. The defining characteristic is a game in which a character appears, not their race.
Secondly, <game> human characters (for example) is not a subcategory of <game> characters, but a subcategory of Human characters. The proposal stems from my frustration with the category system that was implemented in the past ten years, which also ignores the very first rule: As many categories as logically necessary.
Regarding ledes: It's not meant as a replacement for ledes, but a minimum standard. Basically, formalize having the game name in the lead, rather than the year a game takes place in, since it's a relic of the very early years of the wiki. 【Ｔａｇａｚｉｅｌ】 ☏ 19:13, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- I received some extra clarification on this in Discord, and I thank Tag for reaching out about it. My only remaining concern with the lede is that the example that goes into the policy page should have more information than "character and companion" so that readers do not take that as a model lede, when in-universe information should be included. LaymansReign (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2023 (UTC)