Talk: Light

Brightness in the end[]

The table for brightness does not show the brightnesses in the end and I think it should.71.35.109.25 01:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

There is no sky light in the end, and light giving blocks act exactly the same. –KnightMiner ^t/_c 04:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

In that case, there should be a separate thing that tells the brightness compared to a light level of 15 in the overworld or the nether.71.35.109.25 21:11, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Based on it acts the same as the overworld, I will add a note stating "Overworld or End", there is no need to add a separate thing when its the same. –KnightMiner ^t/_c 21:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I notice that it isn't dark underground in the end, even without torches.71.35.109.25 21:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Calculated brightness curves for the three dimensions, during the day with brightness set to "moody". Horizontal axis is block light, vertical is sky light.

The brightness tables in the article seem to be wrong or outdated, and the implication that brightness in the End is the same as in the Overworld is certainly wrong.

We start with the world's light brightness table, from WorldProvider.generateLightBrightnessTable(). Here the Overworld and the End are the same, calculating brightness as (level / 15) / ((1 - level / 15) * 3 + 1) while the Nether (in WorldProviderHell) does (level / 15) / ((1 - level / 15) * 3 + 1) * 0.9 + 0.1. Various further manipulations are done in EntityRenderer.updateLightmap() to determine the final brightness curves as shown in the image to the right, but the bit of real interest is that it tests whether the dimension is the End and if so ignores sky light completely and recalculates block light with a different curve.

Other things of note:

A block light level is brighter than a sky light level. This is probably balanced by the fact that block lighting where you can actually see it maxes out at 14 rather than 15.
I see code to implement a slight flickering in block light levels. The image to the right uses a "flicker factor" of 0, which should be the average.
Block light level 0 in the Nether is closer to the Overworld's block light level 7.
Daylight is white, while nightlight is blueish. Block light is orangeish in the middle values.
Since the Nether's ambient lighting is basically just making block light brighter thanks to the absence of sky light, it too has an orange tinge. The End's ambient lighting has a cyan tinge.
If there were sky light in the End, it wouldn't make things any brighter. You can also see this if you summon lightning somewhere where it can't set fires: it doesn't brighten the world while striking like it does in the Overworld or the Nether.

Anomie x (talk) 17:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

1.11 Makes darkness absolute?[]

It looks to me like as of 1.11, the default "Moody" setting makes darkness a lot darker -- in fact, similar to the effects of the Hardcore Darkness mod. 0 light means, you don't see anything! I wanted to confirm this before adding it to the page, especially as I don't have the new light-response curves, and wouldn't know how to make the graphical image showing the sky/block combination. --MentalMouse42 (talk) 03:44, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any difference, switching between 1.11 and 1.10 and 1.9 and 1.8. Are you sure you're on vanilla and not Optifine or something? – Sealbudsman ^talk/_contr 16:26, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Yup, brand new profile, MC 1.11 not Forge. --MentalMouse42 (talk) 02:24, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Here's what I see (click for bigger): File:SealbudsmanLightLevels.gif <-- this is under a stone platform at night; you can see the moonlight in the background, and the total darkness in the foreground, with a torch so you can see the difference – Sealbudsman ^talk/_contr 05:41, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Weird -- up through 1.10.2, I was seeing much more visibility in the total darkness, which also matches what I'd been seeing in people's videos and such, say when they were mining. For that matter, it matches the current text on the page proper here: "Full darkness is about 5% brightness" In total darkness, it was difficult to see the difference between, say, stone and ore, but I could definitely see where the blocks themselves were, which I can't anymore in the game (or your GIF). (And in fact, the "Hardcore Darkness" mod was specifically developed to make that not happen.) And yes, I played on the default "Moody", I was always about leaving things as default unless I had a particular reason to change them. --MentalMouse42 (talk) 11:40, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

ETA: Combining this thread with discussions elsewhere, I have now reached the point of "if a third person tells you you're a duck...". I think that an IRL visit to an eye doctor is in my near future. :-( . -MentalMouse42 (talk) 12:19, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Might depend on the screen and its settings?

Also my picture has debug text, so the white F3 text almost completely washes out everything else (did you notice the andesite and snow block behind the blazing white text, for instance?)

Also this is grass, which is a bit darker than stone under dim light.

Also there's a significant difference between cave darkness and moonlit darkness.

This was also taken with original lighting, not with smooth lighting. I think smooth lighting creates even more shadows?

Just some ideas. I hope it's not your eyes :) . – Sealbudsman ^talk/_contr 14:10, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

The thing is, I myself can't see a difference between the different MC versions in your GIF. and other people have also been telling me "what change? I haven't seen any change!" What I see in your GIF is still a blatant difference from what I remember, but much closer to what I'm seeing now. Again, there's that saying: If you go out one day, and the first person you talk to tells you "hey, you're a duck!", you laugh at them. If the second person you meet also says "you're a duck", quit laughing. If a third person then tells you "you're a duck"... check for feathers.

Then too, I did just turn 50, and I have been having more problems reading fine print lately. I had been assuming that it was just the usual focusing issues that come with age, but a proper ophthalmologist can check my light/dark sensitivity, and test for gross physical issues . --MentalMouse42 (talk) 15:57, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't rule out a simple confabulation of memory, either; the mind can be a slippery thing. Maybe you weren't always on Moody, for instance? Maybe you always played on original lighting, and recently you switched to smooth?

As for eyesight and memories of playing on Moody lighting -- for comparison, I'm only thirty-two, (I think that means my eyes are ... okay?) and to my memory, I've mostly played in Moody as well, except that one thing I remember is that I never play Hardcore in Moody, I always play Hardcore in 50%, because the underground on Moody has always been just too pitch-black for those kind of risks.

who knows! – Sealbudsman ^talk/_contr 16:34, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Lighting in the Nether and the Lighting curves[]

It says, "In the Nether, sky lighting doesn't play a role since there is no source of sky light ". If this is true, then the nether section of the "lighting curves" picture should be similar to that of the Night or End (except the tint). Is there anything more to consider? BSkyWcloud (talk) 03:09, 28 March 2019 (UTC)BSkyWcloud

There's a contradiction in of Blaze spawning light levels[]

In the chart found at Internal light level > Effects of internal light > Mobs it says that blazes spawn in Nether Fortresses at a level of 7 or less. On the Blaze page it says that they spawn in Nether Fortresses at a light level of 11 or less.--Dragon3025 (talk) 22:47, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that it's the latter (11 or less). –Sonicwave ^talk 00:23, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Bedrock inconsistencies[]

Testing seems to indicate lower slabs also let light through in bedrock. – Unsigned comment added by 84.211.128.131 (talk) at 20:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with ~~~~

Indeed they do, since slabs are transparent in Bedrock. But I see nothing that contradicts that in the article. What exactly are you thinking needs to be changed? Auldrick (talk) 21:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion on renaming suggestion[]

Dhranios suggested here that the page be renamed to "Lighting".

Disagree The new light block is a specialized tool for creative-mode builders, while in-game light is a basic mechanic. For normal players, when they search for "light", they should reach this page, not be redirected by way of the new and obscure builder's item. --21:45, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

--MentalMouse42 (talk) 21:45, 14 May 2021 (UTC) (signing discussion comment)

Agree with the proposal. We follow Java Edition names, so not renaming this wouldn't be consistent. Supeika (talk) 22:56, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Based on your wording, you agree with Dhranios, not MentalMouse42, right? Also, I Oppose not moving this page per the style guide.Humiebee^{talk contribs} 23:02, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

(so I Support moving, if anyone is confused) Humiebee^{talk contribs} 12:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

With MetalManiacMc's suggestion, I now Oppose moving this page (if not clear enough below). I Support moving the light block page but only when 1.17 releases. Humiebee^{talk contribs} 00:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

I Strong support moving the page only once the light block is released, if the latter is not renaned in java. - User:MetalManiacMc@~07:00

I Oppose moving the page, and I disagree that this wiki should blindly follow java naming conventions when Bedrock Edition has the larger installed base. The light block is called light_block internally in Bedrock; the fact that the naming is messed up in Java should not be a reason to disrupt the article locations, particularly when the light block isn't something that most players would encounter or use during gameplay, it's a specialized block of interest to map makers only. Amatulic (talk) 07:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

The problem would be consistancy. Why would light use BE names and spawn eggs JE names for example ? MetalManiacMc at your service fellow human! (talk) 08:02, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Another solution would be maybe renameing light block to "light (block)" and keeping this page MetalManiacMc at your service fellow human! (talk) 08:02, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Strong support (there is End Portal (block), and possibly Chorus Plant (block)). Humiebee^{talk contribs} 12:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

I Support naming the new article Light (block) as well, especially since we have precedent. I have just moved it to the new name. Amatulic (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

@Amatulic:, isn't moving the page because of the Java Edition addition against the style guide? (so only should be moved when 1.17 fully comes out in Mid-2020) Humiebee^{talk contribs} 15:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Which part? "Light (block)" doesn't really contradict the java edition name. Amatulic (talk) 16:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, End portal (block) exists 92.184.116.103 16:57, 15 May 2021 (UTC) (who actually is user:MetalManiacMc but you can't check)

Like the style guide says that pages should only be renamed once it is in full release (Dirt Path is one example, not moved because Java Edition says Grass Path but is changing to dirt path in 1.17). If Java Edition never added the light block, the page would of never been moved to Light (block). It should be renamed to Light (block) once 1.17 releases. Humiebee^{talk contribs} 17:01, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

That isn't exactly the same thing. The grass/dirt path block already existed in both editions before the 1.17 renaming. The light block is a totally new thing for Java. I have no objection to my moves being reverted, though. Amatulic (talk) 17:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Care to explain how "naming is messed up in Java" when it's the version that's had the Flattening and several intentional ID and display renames for consistency and the like, despite Bedrock Edition still being 10 years behind in that regard? - User-12316399 (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Naming it "light" would still be really odd because as stated in the original post, it is only a builder's tool and most people would be looking for this page. So MetalManiacMc made a suggestion to rename it to Light (block) which in my opinion, is a lot better. Humiebee^{talk contribs} 17:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Strong support for letting stand Amatulic's renaming of the Light block page to "Light (block)", as suggested by MetalManiacMc. The rule Humiebee mentions is meant to avoid renaming item/block pages before the game itself does, but there is no reason not to adjust the page name for an upcoming block. --MentalMouse42 (talk) 23:04, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, the move has been reverted anyway. May as well wait for 1.17 before moving it back to Light (block). Amatulic (talk) 19:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

And now that 1.17 is out, the block's page has been duly renamed. --MentalMouse42 (talk) 14:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Page needs Updated for 1.18[]

All Overword monster mobs spawn at a light level of 0 now, so this should be changed in order to be more accurate. unfortuantely, I do not know how to edit the table required.Xpsupernova (talk) 18:59, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Not totally true. Slimes spawn below level 7. But yeah, that table needs to be removed or simplified. There is information in there that has nothing to do with light. It could be converted to a list. Amatulic (talk) 00:22, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

I updated the table. Amatulic (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

You forgot to fix the enderman. I beleive they also spawn at light level 0 in the overworld as well. Thank you for the help on the table.Xpsupernova (talk) 07:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I think I fixed the Enderman now but what do the different colors actually mean? (Oh, and I reformatted the comments here a bit) Nilbadimo (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree the different colors can be confusing (undead mobs burning in sunlight should not be the same base color as mobs being allowed to spawn). If I remember to do so I might adjust them at some point.

Edit: I've just done so, simplifying the colors in both the mob and block table to red, gray, and green, and the yellow "neutral" color only for specific cases where mobs spawn under special conditions. –Sonicwave ^talk 21:06, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Looks better but I have an idea: the Table offers 6 colors (2*red, 2*green, grey, orange = no/never, yes/always, unknown, neutral) and we could try to encode more information into those colors (spawn y/n, provoke-able y/n) - eg. brightRed=spawn+hostile, red=noSpawn+hostile, brightGreen=spawn+provokeable, green=noSpawn+provokeable, orange=for special cases (burn in sunlight).

Light level > Mob v	0	1	8	12
Blazes	Nether Fortresses			-
Wither Skeletons	Nether Fortresses		-
Zombified Piglins	Nether			-
Slimes (slime chunk)	slime chunks (between y: -64–40)
Slimes (swamp)	swamps (between y: 50–70)		-
Zombies Skeletons Chicken jockeys	Overworld	-		-, burn in sunlight
Drowned	oceans & rivers	-		-, Burn in sunlight, ignore player outside water when in sunlight
Creepers Witches	Overworld	-
Phantoms	Spawn in the Overworld if player hasn't entered a bed in over 3 in-game days		-	-, Burn in sunlight
Spiders Cave spiders Spider jockey	Overworld	-		-
Silverfish	spawners in the Overworld			-
Endermen	All three dimensions	the Nether		-, teleport randomly in the Overworld

I removed bats because they're irrelevant I think (never hostile). But Piglings are missing and Skeletons spawn in the nether too don't they?

Argh - fandom's darkmode is stupid - it doesn't preserve the colors and kinda flips them instead. And I forgot my signature Nilbadimo (talk) 23:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Crops no longer use Internal sky light[]

In recent versions crops seems to grow based on sky light, unadjusted for time of day. So if block light is 0 and sky light is 15, then wheat will still grow even at night. At one point crop growth was based on internal light level, but it seems to have changed sometime between 1.8.9 and 1.16.4. See Talk:Tutorials/Crop farming. Greenpepperpasta (talk) 03:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

How did you test this? Are you saying that crops grow in a dark cave with no light, because the sky has light? Amatulic (talk) 23:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Set time to midnight. Plant some seeds on the ground outside with no light sources. Set randomTickSpeed really high. Watch the seeds grow.

By "sky light" I mean the value shown in F3 along with block light. The sky light value doesn't change at night. The article says that plant growth is based on the "internal light level" which does adjust based on time of day. If this was true, crops wouldn't grow at night since the internal sky light is only 4 at midnight. Greenpepperpasta (talk) 20:32, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Normal behavior. MC-264834 — resolved as "Works As Intended". Amatulic (talk) 17:38, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Phantom spawning in Java Edition[]

The Mobs section only shows the light level that phantoms spawn in bedrock, in java they spawn at light level 10 and below --PEOJII (talk) 02:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

How do you know this? Phantoms and any other hostile mobs spawn in thunderstorms, which have a light level of 10, but the phantom article says nothing about light level required for spawning in Java Edition, only that they spawn at night and during thunderstorms. And the light level at night is 7 or less. Therefore, the table seems OK. Amatulic (talk) 17:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)