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Exact value of actions?[]
Testing different "likes" of Cait (lockpicking, nudity, etc.) after completing her companion quest yielded only 7.5 affinity points. I suspect the formula is more complex than the table posted in the page, but I have not done enough testing to confirm. 168.150.122.121
- Yeah, it probably is. There's a lot of game mechanics that are "close enough" right now until someone can provide better data. If you're able to get that, that would be a good addition. --Xernoc (talk) 04:49, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
- It was that very argument that kept me from changing the page itself. I tested some more with MacCready. Before personal quest was completed, all non-dialogue likes worked fine. After quest completion, stealing gave full 15 but lockpicking "owned" doors only gave 7.5. I'm thinking it may just be another one of the myriad of minor bugs in the game. --168.150.122.121 20:46, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
- I was looking for similar experience. I exploited Dogmeat to gain affinity for Curie (synth) and Codsworth, simultaneously. Each time I saved, reloaded and used stimpak on Dogmeat, both Curie and Codsworth received 7.5 points each. I thought it was 15 points split by 2, since it affected two characters. 149.254.234.177 00:28, January 25, 2016 (UTC)
- Both of my tests were performed with only 1 companion. But I am now more sure that at some point "repeatable" approval gains get penalized. Still won't edit page until creation kit comes out and we can actually prove it. 168.150.122.121 21:35, January 27, 2016 (UTC)
- The values in the page appear to be correct for like/dislike but wrong for love/hate, which should be 35/-35 based on the affinity globals (at least, as of patch 1.3):
- CA_Event_Hates = -35.00
- CA_Event_Loves = 35.00
- CA_Event_Dislikes = -15.00
- CA_Event_Likes = 15.00
- And the half-values are due to each affinity event having a size assigned to it, and each size has a multiplier. There appears to be three sizes based on these globals:
- CA_Size_Large = 1.50
- CA_Size_Small = 0.50
- CA_Size_Normal = 1.00
- Things like modifying armor and weapons appear to be small-size events. Tested by removing an armor mod, which Codsworth loves and increases his affinity by 17.5 points. If I reload the save, change CA_Event_Small to 1, and repeat the above then Codsworth increases his affinity by 35. --WeelyTM (talk) 11:16, February 10, 2016 (UTC)
Cooldown time?[]
How much time do I have to wait for the Cooldown to expire? Volcannon (talk) 21:28, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
- I've found that two hours of in game time is sufficient. Whether that's across the board or just for certain actions I can't say for sure. Twicedouble (talk) 07:17, January 11, 2016 (UTC)
- Was just testing the same. While I haven't quite nailed down the cooldown period itself, I can verify that exiting the game and starting it again appears to reset the cooldown timer, allowing you to quickly exploit the affinity system. For example: take McCready anywhere with an owned container, place an item, steal it, save, quit, restart, repeat. Very much a cheat, I know, and IMO if you are willing to do this you may as well use the console. -- DeJuanNOnley (talk) 10:24, January 11, 2016 (UTC)
I will certainly try to wait the two hours in game to see if that works. I will update if either someone has a 100% answer or I get an approximate or better. Also, I know about the quicksave and load thing to reset the affinity cooldown as I did that for Cait and MacCready already.Volcannon (talk) 17:25, January 11, 2016 (UTC)
On PS4, five minutes of unpaused play, no deaths or reloads (so probably two in-game hours, not sure on the actual math) was enough to reset Piper's affinity for picking locks. With weapon modding to farm Preston's approval it took noticeably longer than that. RShepard227 (talk) 01:37, January 12, 2016 (UTC)
Renaming "Exploits"[]
Should they really be characterized as exploits? Exploit implies that it's something unintended by Bethsoft and will eventually be patched out, and yet they allow the actions to not only garner Affinity but to be repeatable. I don't see how they can be characterized as "exploits" even doing them on multiple occasions (as part of the usual "grind dungeon -> bring loot back to settlement" routine). The cooldowns seem to be pretty lax on modding and lock-picking in particular, even when playing "normally" and not farming save and reload. (Tried that with Codsworth and found it even more of a monotonous grind that accumulating it naturally. Probably because it was PS4, no quickloading and the save-reload mechanics are clunkier.) From a roleplaying perspective, I agree, it's a ridiculous way to get Piper to like you as much as Cait and MacCready, who would primarily like you to do the opposite of what Piper primarily likes. So should we call the section "Repeatable actions" or something to that effect? RShepard227 (talk) 22:19, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
- The listed actions are exploiting the affinity cooldown with a save and reload, so I think the header is relevant. Its not a full list, including things like one-time dialogue choices etc. Its for people looking for an exploit to raise affinity. --Wulfharth (talk) 16:35, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Eh, alright. I reworded everything to keep it as an effective list (I believe that's all of the repeatable actions in the game that affect Affinity) while emphasizing the save-reload method as the qualifier for what makes it so exploitable. RShepard227 (talk) 19:38, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
Considering how the list has expanded in recent months, it now includes several items that are repeatable by design (e.g. accepting settlement quests, nudity while transitioning between map cells, and hacking terminals), but repeating them isn't a simple matter of quicksaving and quick-loading in front of a workbench or locked safe connected to a terminal. They have additional steps such as allowing several in-game days to pass (to reset the map cell and the terminals within), or returning to Preston and getting word of a settlement that needs help and marking it on the map. These elements fall under normal progression of the game and thus can't be considered exploits in the same vein as the original list. Basically, it now looks more like a "full list" of repeatable actions (doesn't have one-time dialogues) rather than just strictly those that can be exploited with quicksave-quickload, as Wulfharth noted. In light of these developments I think we should now reconsider the "exploitative" nature of these actions to be a mere foreword to the overall list that's only applicable in certain situations, while keeping those situations available in the list, thus titling the list "Repeatable actions." Alternatively, we stick to the original intent of the section and not have any items that cannot be farmed with QSQL within the < 1 minute window it takes to execute an action, quick save and then reload, thus removing those sections, but this route seems unnecessarily arbitrary/subjective. Put another way, if we keep the current definition we find that many things don't fit within it, and if we change the definition of "exploit" then it's no longer the definition that establishes the original purpose for the original list. If anyone has any dire objections to my thesis please list them here. RShepard227 (talk) 16:52, March 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Personally, I think it is more useful to readers to only list the true exploitable actions as originally intended. It was not an arbitrary decision to originally do this. I don't agree with adding actions that are not exploitable with save/reload and these sections should be moved to their respective companion page (such as "Addiction"). They are outside of the scope of the section and there isn't much point in having duplicate lists on this page and also the companion page.
- I put myself in the mind of a reader looking for the fastest, most exploitative way to raise the affinity a companion - a list that gives them the methods to do it achieves that goal. For a more general and full list they can visit the companion page. --Wulfharth (talk) 18:36, March 29, 2016 (UTC)
- I'm actually of the same mind as you, that it should be one or the other, I've even deliberately avoided adding hacking and nudity in the past because of the added steps involved. As for addiction, yeah, that's me, it's another one of those gray areas in that you can "exploit" it with QSQL, albeit with a sufficient stockpile of them, but if that alone is a disqualifier then we ought to disqualify chem and alcohol use as well. When I said "arbitrary" I meant to go ahead and unilaterally remove hundreds of characters of content that others saw fit to add (so it was probably a poor choice of words, my apologies), so I'd like the other major contributors to this page to chime in. But getting multiple people into a discussion doesn't seem to happen very often on this wiki. RShepard227 (talk) 01:04, April 2, 2016 (UTC)
Math confirmations[]
Two things: First, the top section reads "Typically, all companions start with an affinity of 0..." Are there any instances of companions joining with less or more?
Second, can someone double check that formula on followers gaining passive approval gains just from following? A) That this is actually a thing, and B) If so, does it add immediately upon them joining you, leaving you free to dismiss them immediately afterwards and pick up someone else? Does this have a "cooldown" mechanic like the farmable actions, but party-wide (i.e. If I haven't used Danse or Curie since turning in a quest, and I recruit Danse, can Curie still get an approval boost if I swap him or does it only apply to the first companion after turning in a quest)?
RShepard227 (talk) 19:35, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Can't speak to the first question, but I can confirm the formula appears accurate and does award affinity at some unknown interval. It definitely doesn't happen immediately, and it seems like the updates can be delayed or somehow end up bunching up. For example, I was waiting/sleeping a few hours then checking Preston for his affinity update only to find no change even after 24 hours. Then I spent a minute or two modifying the settlement I was in, came back to check on him, and he had finally gained affinity... but it was two updates worth. --WeelyTM (talk) 11:30, February 10, 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. So it sounds like the way forward is to save this technique for characters like Nick and Curie (and Strong if one isn't into that whole "flesh of your fellow man can provide..." thing from the Vault-Tec infomercials). The best way a PC player could check my first question would be to reload a save from prior to recruiting a companion and then check the affinity in the command console. If it says 0, then they start at 0, unless the initial dialogue influences it (like with Cait, I banked 10 Likes running around Goodneighbor, which should only be +150, but she immediately gave me the first friendship dialogue, so she's either set to trigger at <150, the Likes add more than we are led to think with the main page, or she started at >0 because of something I said in the Combat Zone). RShepard227 (talk) 03:50, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't have Cait yet, but I reloaded my last save before unlocking Preston and he started with 0. Interestingly, as soon as I changed from Dogmeat to him, it evaluated the periodic affinity update and gave me 40 affinity, then started a 10 minute update timer. Dismissing and then recruiting him again immediately did not give me any affinity, but it did restart the 10 minute timer. Changing my active companion to Dogmeat and then recruiting Preston again had the same effect. However, I noticed the CompanionActorScript on Preston caches your xp when it starts/restarts the 10 minute timer and has a WithPlayerXPGainMin variable set to 1. So I tried again making Dogmeat my active companion, earned a few xp by making an armor misc mod, and then recruiting Preston. This time, it did award me affinity since my xp had changed (xp change appears to be required to earn affinity at the 10 minute interval as well). So I don't think turning in a quest is required, just earning at least 1 xp is enough.
- I'll check Cait's script when I recruit her, see if anything is different. It could just be that some or all of the affinity events you triggered in Goodneighbor were 'large size' events, which has a 1.5x multiplier. All 10 at that rate would give you 225, and if you got a periodic affinity update as soon as you recruited her, you'd get another 32.575 putting you over 250. --WeelyTM (talk) 23:09, February 16, 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for finding this out. I'm not sure if we can add it to the page until someone can double check that, so if there are any other scripts you referenced or methods you used please write them down, we'd really appreciate it. I'm pretty sure I picked a lock as one of those 10 events, "small-scale" so they shouldn't have been worth that much, unless it scales with the "value" of the target (i.e. high value theft vs. low value, Expert lock vs. Novice). At least we've got the "follow me" affinity mechanic worked out. So if I understand this correctly, approval issues every 10 minutes like an "automatic food dispenser" as long as your xp has increased, but if you don't earn any xp during that interval you have to wait another 10 minutes? Or does it mean you can recruit -> gain affinity -> dismiss -> gain xp -> recruit again -> gain affinity again? One last thing to go over, how is this affected by negative Affinity, if the scale is based on 0 to +1000? Does it remain a constant value of +40 until you get above 0? RShepard227 (talk) 17:20, February 27, 2016 (UTC)
Sleeping naked with Cait to gain approval takes forever[]
Regarding the recommendation: "The Sole Survivor may raise Cait's affection level by removing their clothing and..." "A quicker alternative" "Home Plate house" "bed in front of the door," <-- This method takes forever. You only gain 7.5pts per cycle @ charisma 7 doing this, meaning if you started at 250 affinity, it would take 67 cycles to get her to 750 to get the Benign Intervention quest, if you didn't advance affinity any other way. It would take 100 cycles (plus the quest?) to get her to 1000 and the romance ability. It's MUCH quicker IMO to just take her on raids. Perhaps that paragraph, under the heading "Nudity," could use some modification. HalloweenWeed (talk) 15:55, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
- That's by design; documented above is a hidden "scaling" mechanic that increases and decreases the value of certain actions away from the baselines of 15 and 35. That mechanic seems to lower the value of actions that can be repeated while raising the value of dialogue choices and quest decisions (so it being quicker to take her on raids applies to every companion, not just her). Depending on your load times (try disabling "Save on travel" and "save on rest" if they're active) for transitioning between Home Plate and Diamond City and then sleeping off the "cooldown" it can amount to +7.5 every 20 seconds, every 60 seconds, or somewhere in between. Even under ideal conditions it's about 40 minutes to max someone using just one of their repeatable actions, so the idea is not to farm a single mechanic but to use multiple mechanics at once, as their cooldowns are independent. Taking a chem, drinking hard liquor AND doing this you can triple it and thus cut the time down to 1/3 of forever. And the method that's listed is actually much faster than the original idea of fast traveling between settlements. Haven't tested it personally but the theory is sound: in one scenario the game has to keep rendering two settlements and some of their surrounding areas out in the wilderness (about 20-30 seconds each on PS4) vs. the comparatively smaller Diamond City and Home Plate (20 for the city, 5 for the house). So it saves about 15-30 seconds each cycle, depending on your platform. RShepard227 (talk) 04:00, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
"Save and Reload" trick doesn't work after patch 1.5?[]
It seems that save and reload to farm the affinity doesn't work anymore after patch 1.5, the cooldown time won't rest instantly and get affinity with S/L, must wait , can anyone also confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.228.124.208 (talk • contribs) 12:26, May 6, 2016 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
- Confirmed. Doesn't work even if you completely shut down and restart the game either, so the cooldown timers must be being stored in the save file. Aya42 (talk) 12:13, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Companion affinity seems to increase by travelling together[]
I have not done extensive testing (I'm too lazy for that sh**) but after installing "Visible Companion Affinity" (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10660/?) I see that my affinity rises with [particular companion] every so often just by travelling together, but no information about this mechanic is mentioned in the article.
(No, I don't know the exact interval, in game time or real time...my in-game timescale is altered too, making 'vanilla' testing even less likely for me.)
It's a minute amount (less than "soandso likes x") and so may be negligable overall, but I'm surprised it wasn't included in this article, since a relevant detail is that if you travel with so-and-so long enough, your affinity will keep increasing.
Disclaimer: The aforementioned mod doesn't change how affinity is acquired, it only gives the player UI messages WHEN affinity is acquired/lost.
75.189.192.83 22:59, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
- That is covered in the last paragraph of the Reactions section of the article, just before the Romance section. The formula for passive affinity gain while traveling with a companion can be found there as well. WeelyTM (talk) 05:25, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
Approval/disapproval distances[]
Just wondering, is there and distance away from an active companion so they won't "see" an action they might disapprove of. Will leaving them in another cell work?
I have been travelling with Strong who dislikes lock picking. Since there is at least one lock to pick in most locations, this is two steps forward and one step back. I'm pretty sure I managed to avoid his disapproval by leaving him in an exterior cell on one occasion. If you are outside away from an interior cell, this is impractical.
I've still managed to get him up to 500, but compared to other companions, it's slow going.203.59.175.169 11:59, November 8, 2016 (UTC)
Console Commands[]
The information about console commands in the Romance section is incorrect. Setav does not prevent the game from changing the value in the future, only forceav does that. In fact, setav is the recommended way to change affinity with the console. Using modav changes how much affinity is received from all sources. This is taken directly from the Fallout 4 console commands page on the wiki:
Using modav CA_affinity to edit a companion's affinity level will not only adjust their current affinity level, but will impact all future instances which change affinity level by the cumulative modav CA_affinity values. For example, if modav CA_affinity 100 is input followed by a "dislike" event, the companions affinity would change by -7.50 + 100.00, causing the companion to gain a net 92.50 affinity, despite a negative event. To prevent this, it is recommended to use setav when modifying affinity, which will not affect affinity changing events. An event will need to be triggered for the change to register (and trigger dialog, etc.) using either setav or modav.
--CptObvious1994 (talk) 06:28, November 2, 2019 (UTC)