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Untitled[]
Guys, I know Survival says that it's influenced by Endurance, but when I made a 10 INT character I noticed my survival was very high (25 base). I then went back and made a 10 END character, to find that the only skill it influenced was unarmed. I changed this on this page, but someone just changed it back. I'm not sure whether this is a glitch or a formula change that they just didn't tell us about, but it should be noted. For base statistics, intelligence influences medicine, repair, science, AND survival. (This was on the 360 version)
Update: I'm reading now that this is a 360 glitch, but it should still be noted
--IlbJanissary 07:07, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
Max Skills (No DLC)[]
Is it possible to max out all the skills? Malus X 22:50, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
Technically yes, but only by using console hacks on the PC version. There is a (very) distant possibility that you could pull it off by planning everything ahead, maxing intelligence, taking comprehension, and getting every single skill book in the wasteland, but, as I said, the chances it would work are quite slim. --Mkelican 02:58, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
The answer is not "technically yes", but no. It is entirely impossible to max out all skills without cheating.
Allow me to detail this process:
Starting Points: All skills are granted 2 starting points, even if SPECIAL was somehow lodged at 0 for all stats Amount of points gained strictly from start: 2 * 13 = 26
SPECIAL selection: SPECIAL stats have a direct correlation to skill points in particular categories. Therefore, it would be advantageous to maximize this by shifting SPECIAL to particular categories. However, it is also advantageous to maximize SPECIAL itself.
Therefore, the following SPECIAL is ideal (in some respects) and achievable:
STR = 2 PER = 10 END = 10 CHA = 8 INT = 10 AGL = 9 LCK = 9
Why and how this selection? In simplest terms, you'll get the most points out of investing in those SPECIAL stats which affect the most skills.
LCK, of course, affects all skills, by a ceiling on half of its value. As there are 13 skills, this means a 9 in LCK will net you CEIL(0.5 * 9) * 13 = 65 points. Note that since LCK can't go below 1, it is really only 52 points, still higher than any other.
PER and INT both affect three skills, which means for every increase in SPECIAL for these two stats results in: (2 * 10) * 3 = 60 points, but it acts as if it is 54 (as you can't lower either stat below 1). This is (theoretically) almost as good as LCK, and (practically) better.
END, AGL, and CHR are all 2 skill affectors, netting them (2 * 10) * 2 = 40 points, though it acts like 36 due to zero issues.
STR, unfortunately, only affects melee, and therefore only does (2 * 10) = 20, or 18 in reality.
So, it seems obvious what to upgrade: LCK, PER, INT, and one other should all go to 10 at the very beginning, with AGL CHR END and STR staying at 1 (depending on what you select). But there are more things to consider, as this route is impossible; you'd need 43 points and you only get 40.
END Implants: Fortunately, this is easy to fix, because END can grant you up to 9 implants, 7 of which affect SPECIAL like extremely pricey bobbleheads. Putting END, INT, and PER at 9 allows for all implants to be selected, and putting LCK at 8 allows you to up it to 9, but its affect on skills is as if it was 10 (though you don't gain that extra 1% critical chance).
Small Frame Trait: This adds one to agility, boosting your skill points by a small amount, allowing it to max out fully with the END implants, or to balance with CHR.
Intense Training Perks: In addition, ten levels of Intense Training may be taken, for an additional ten SPECIAL points; as INT, END, LCK, and PER should all be at max effectiveness by the time you level up (hope you can earn lots of money and run really far without leveling up), you can choose to put these extra points into CHR or AGL, whichever is your fancy. I recommend putting points into both equally, but keep in mind AGL will be one higher since you selected Small Frame.
INT Skill Points: INT obviously grants you a substantial amount of extra skill points to use if it is raised to 10 within level 1; this can net you 30 * 5 = 150 additional skill points (though, again, in practical considerations you cannot go below 1 INT, and therefore the real gain is lower, at 135). As long as you race to the other side of the map and acquire 4000 dollars somehow to raise INT at level 1, this strategy allows you to maximize the amount of skill points you acquire from having high INT.
Amount of points gained strictly from SPECIAL: A = 2 * ((PER)10 + (INT)10) * 3 = 120 B = 2 * ((END)10 + (AGL)9 + (CHA)8) * 2 = 108 C = 2 * (STR)2 * 1 = 4 D = ((LCK)9/2) * 13 = 65 E = ((INT)10/2) * 30 = 150
A + B + C + D + E = 447 points gained
TAG selection: As Tagged skills get an extra 15 points each, and there is indeed a tag perk, you can acquire tag up to 4 skills.
Amount of points gained strictly from TAG selection: 4 * 15 = 60
Skill Books:
Skills may be permanently increased via skill books, with science being unique in allowing for an optional extra skill book. As there are differing numbers of skill books for each skill, as well as a perk which adds a small bonus to each skill book, I will merely show the end result of both this perk, and acquiring ALL skill books:
Amount of points gained strictly from skill book's: 53 books * 4 each = 212 points gained
Perk Selection:
A perk is available which increases the amount of skills you gain each level, starting at level 4. Amount of points gained strictly from Perks: (30 - 4) * 2 = 52 points gained.
Leveling Up:
Simply leveling up gets you 10 points, regardless of any other statistic Amount of points gained strictly from leveling: 30 * 10 = 300 points gained.
Final Tally:
26 + 447 + 60 + 212 + 52 + 300 = 1097 points possible to have in Fallout: New Vegas 13 * 100 = 1300, amount of points necessary to have 100 in everything in Fallout: New Vegas
So our original goal is, obviously, unachievable, even in the extreme. However, another (lesser) goal is easily achievable with this strategy: the possibility of having 100 in every skill, but not at the same time, via skill mags.
13 * 80 = 1040, definitely possible even with a few screw ups, and with a few less perks wasted in Intense Training. This would allow you to do anything having 100 in any skill could do, but not all at the same time; you'd need to waste a mag to jump your skill from 80 to 100 every once in a while.
Final Questions: There is also possible goal which would also require less perk sacrifice, but would require calculations I do not, unfortunately, have at the moment: how high must a skill really be to be useful?
Medicine, for example, need not be terribly useful if you have large sums of caps (obviously acquirable via the various exploits but also via playing Caravan, as will be necessary to level INT to 10 while being a level 1) with which to buy stims; the usefulness of medicine is therefore tied directly into when it is required for quests, which seems to cap at 75 (healing Caeser), therefore allowing you to keep it at 55, use a skill mag to temporarily increase it to 75 when necessary, and save 25 points over leaving it at 80.
A number of skills are also useless unless taken to very specific levels; increasing lockpicking from 50 to 52 generates absolutely no benefit, but increasing it to 55 will allow you to pick hard locks (with a skill mag). It is important to consider precisely how many Very Hard locked doors and terminals there are; if there are very few, then increasing Lockpicking and Science to anything more than 55 is wasteful. If there are many, but no unique items, it is just as wasteful in many ways (but less in others).
In addition, many skills may be temporarily increased with clothing or with chems, including SPECIAL stats. Wearing a hat is not an egregious task, and often increases PER by 1, perhaps allowing this point to be put into STR instead, to raise it for melee skills. It may indeed be possible to have a character who has the coveted 100 in every skill, but only if they wear the correct clothing and with the correct chems, without the use of skill mags to temporarily increase a skill by 20. While it is most likely not possible to keep all skills at 100 for very long (skill mags) or at all times (clothing), it is most likely possible to keep them so high and so consistently as to make it irrelevant that they are not all at 100.
Finally, I leave the question open as to whether or not it is possible to devise a character who can do everything in the game, and yet acquire a substantial amount of interesting perks. For example, keeping PER high with a hat does not allow you to acquire many of the perks which require high PER, such as Nerves of Steel; it may be possible to find a narrow path in which all the perks you'd WANT are available, clothing boosts the low points, and your skills are arranged in such a way as to allow you, for example, to unlock any door as well as craft any item. This question is open as there is insufficient knowledge gathered as of yet for me to devise such a character build; I don't know precisely how much, for example, unique items are behind locked doors, or how many science points are required for all missions.
So check back later, and I might have the PERFECT BUILD finally completed; until then, know that 100 in all stats is only achievable via temporary usage of skill mags at this time.
Ururu117 04:52, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
- To the person with the equation I have something to point out: Max points gained per level would change with the Int and Lck so saying 10 per level is false. Starting with 10 Int you can get at least 15 per level from the start, like how i have. So that might change your equations a bit. --Alpha Lycos 12:11, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
- This is old, but I should mention that the section on maximizing skills is, even in its limited scope, incorrect. Between that and this discussion, my user page should more fully describe the complete calculations. Positronic Spleen 04:59, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
Incorrect associated stats.[]
The table on this page lists the incorrect associated stats. I don't actually know how the system works, but I know it must be more complicated than this and can make some assumptions. The video at the end should save you from booting up and restarting a new game to see what I'm talking about. Certian stats are attributed to two stats. Both Endurance and Strength are listed as effecting the base score of the unarmed skill when you first use the vigor tester. I think that is the only such skill. My guess would be that each stat contributes one point to the skill.
Heh... The thing is... I don't actually have the game to test this out. Someone test and fix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6WeOkWDp04
219.90.167.178 08:46, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
max skill increase[]
shouldn't the new max possible skils be updated with the dlcs coming out? we know that each dlc raises the level cap by 5 and there's gonna be 4 dlcs total. we dont know if any perks added in future dlcs will affect skills but we can at least add what we can for now as another 20 levels changes the max skills greatly (especially with high INT or educated).
Yeah, and isn't this going to cause a problem for someone that actually goes OVER the max skills? If you have skill points left to distribute but all skills are sitting on 100, can you not continue? Because as it is now, you can't progress to perk selection (even level) or out of the level-up menu (odd level) until you use up all your new skill points. What about when you CAN'T use any more because you're already maxed? I get 17 points per level on my current playthrough, and I'm at level 40. Once the other two DLC's come out and bump me to level 50, that's an extra 170 skill points. My skills right now are (in the order given in-game): 70, 100, 75, 100, 80, 77, 100, 100, 80, 100, 80, 90, 100. I have a skill book in Dead Money for each skill still to aquire, which will add 4 points * 7 skills (skills at 100 won't increase obviously) = 28 more points. 170 + 28 = 198 points left to distribute. But I only have 'room' for 1300 (max) - 1152 (current) = 148. So I'll have 50 skill points I can't use. Will I be stuck on the skill point distribution screen? --The.true.samiam 04:51, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Don't worry. It just skips that screen if all your skills are at 100. --Actreal 11:08, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- How can you be sure? --No Man, Twin of Yes Man 18:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Because I have a character with all skills at 100 and it skipped the screen when I levelled. --Actreal 01:12, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for the response Actreal, that puts my mind at ease, although to be honest I will be slightly worried until it actually happens for me personally.--The.true.samiam 02:04, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
- Just want to confirm for everyone, I have just maxed all my skills on level 49, with 5 points left over. No problems at all, the game "knew" I was maxed and allowed me to continue. Thanks again Actreal!--The.true.samiam 17:32, August 23, 2011 (UTC)
"Max Skills" possible[]
Having 100 in every skill is possible with Dead Money and Honest Hearts installed if the player is willing to "waste" a lot of perk opportunities into Intense Trainings and possibly Tag!
Getting 10 INT before level 3 and taking Educated at level 4 gives 657 Skill Points by level 40. There is a (realistic) maximum of 73 skill books. With Comprehension, this gives 292 Skill Points. Together, these bring 949 total Skill Points, leaving 351 to go. The 3 Tag! skills drop this to 306.
The most Skill Point-efficient SPECIAL setup using just the initial 40 points and 7 Implants gives 275 Skill Points. This leaves an absolute minimum of 31 Skill Points that must be obtained through Tag! and Intense Training perks, as well as the Small Frame trait.
Note that Tag! and Small Frame are not necessary to make this work, though they do give more flexibilty, allowing the player to have decent Strength.
As a final note, sheer determination and willpower in Honest Hearts can produce an additional 8 skill books (4 per crate instead of 2), giving even more options, though the odds for any workbench crate producing 4 books at once is 0.000256%, assuming the Wiki's page for them is correct.
--71.61.98.67 09:32, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
Clean up?[]
The "Maxing skill" section of this article is a mess. Should it be made more streamlined and similar to its Fallout 3 counterpart? Dr. Lobotomy 23:22, July 23, 2011 (UTC)
i'm able to get skills over 100 mark during level up[]
bug or some patch feature?
OWB + LR cause major changes[]
Assuming LR has no books (unlikely), and if you figure you get 0 books from HH (also unlikely)... you end up with 324 skill points from books. Plus the 827 from being level 50. 45 from level 1 tag. Plus 106 starting with S.P.E.C.I.A.L. of 1/1/1/10/1/1 = 1302 points!
So as long as you have 10 points in int, and play your cards evenly it is possible to get 100 in every skill no matter what your special build. No Traits or Perks needed. GRA here I come. 68.33.39.162 03:21, August 31, 2011 (UTC) AKA Lynith
- Something really should be said about the Skilled trait on this page. 65 points. Plus 65 x 2 with the buggy rebuild screen and the Auto-Doc. 195 points. As far as I've heard, it's still unpatched. 90.237.133.246 00:04, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
remove max skills section?[]
Why does this section still exist? On the one hand, it's strategic (a page I created was deleted for this reason). On the other, it's horribly out of date, so it's not even that useful from a strategic perspective. I'm contemplating deleting it all wholesale... (Thelee 18:22, January 17, 2012 (UTC))
Max Skill Moved Here[]
This is an archive of the max skill section that was cluttering the article:
Maxed skills[]
Since the release of the second DLC Honest Hearts it is possible to create a character that has all skills permanently at 100, however this does require using lots of perks and a specific SPECIAL build, so a player may want to use the perk doubling exploit or wait until further DLCs raise the level cap and thus the skill points available from levelling up. With the release of Old World Blues maxing all skills is much easier with 16 extra skill books (including recipes), the increased level cap and new traits that can enhance your SPECIAL. Even with only Old World Blues installed one could max out their skills.
Note that actually achieving fully maxed out skills with only Dead Money and Honest Hearts requires very careful planning and point assignment, and even using exploits can easily take over fifty hours.
Permanent skill points can come from four different sources:
Leveling: (2 DLC / 40 level cap) 409 - 657
40 levels with an INT of 1 provides 409 skill points, while an INT of 10 and the Educated perk gives the player 657 skill points.
15 at levels 2, 3 and 4, 17 at levels 5 to 40 = (3 x 15) + (36 x 17) = 45 + 612 = 657
Skill Books: 159 - 292
Skill books provide three skill points each, or four with the Comprehension perk.
The base game contains 53 books (5 x Science, 4 x everything else) which gives 159 - 212 points.
Dead Money includes 12 books (1 for each skill except Survival) that add 36 - 48 points.
Honest Hearts contains 4 Workbench crates with (realistically) between zero and two books each that add 0 - 32 points.
212 + 48 + 32 = 292
Tagging: 45 - 60
Tagging three skills adds 15 points per skill, while using the Tag! perk adds a further 15 skill points.
4 x 15 = 60
Sub-Total
657 + 292 + 60 = 1009
1300 points are required to have all 13 skills at 100, so at least (1300 - 1009) = 291 points need to come from the player's SPECIAL if two skills books can be found in each Workbench crate.
SPECIAL: 291 - 321
In order to maximise the skill points derived from a player's SPECIAL the points should be allocated to those attributes that contribute to the most skills (e.g. Intelligence, Perception and Luck), however this may not create the character that the player wants, or may not have the correct points allocation to qualify for desired perks. The 40 points initially available can be assigned in 504,315 ways, and can yield between 175 and 253 skill points. With 10 Intense Training, 6 implants* and Small Frame a total of 57 points can be assigned to SPECIAL, yielding between 269 and 321 skill points. As only 291 points are required to max all skills (based on getting the above skill books etc.) a player has the choice of how to allocate up to 30 'spare' points; e.g. one skill book in Dead Money is effectively inaccessible, one in the base game requires completing a quest in a certain manner, and it can take multiple reloads to get even one skill book from each Workbench crate, or you could max all skills without using Tag! or so many Intense Training.
There are 65,561 combinations of SPECIAL using between 50 and 57 points that can yield 291 skill points or more, and 1,768 of these using 54 - 57 points have all SPECIAL at 7 or more, so there are a large number of ways to create a balanced maxxed character. Using less SPECIAL points to achieve the desired skill point total may seem like a good idea as it uses less Intense Training (thus saving perks) or less implants (thus saving caps), however it will also result in a less well balanced character (and a lower SPECIAL). Whether or not that is important will depend on each player.
Character Builds for Maxxing Skills
Balanced Builds (with INT of 10 to maximise levelling points):
There are 27 ways of assigning 57 SPECIAL points to generate 313 skill points while not having any attribute below 5.
There are 27 ways of assigning 56 SPECIAL points to generate 309 skill points while not having any attribute below 5.
There are 15 ways of assigning 57 SPECIAL points to generate 311 skill points while not having any attribute below 6.
There are 10 ways of assigning 56 SPECIAL points to generate 307 skill points while not having any attribute below 6.
There is 1 way of assigning 57 SPECIAL points to generate 309 skill points while not having any attribute below 7.
7 10 7 7 10 7 9
There is 1 way of assigning 56 SPECIAL points to generate 303 skill points while not having any attribute below 7.
7 9 7 7 10 7 9
These 81 builds provide the greatest return of skill points for SPECIAL points invested while meeting basic character build and perk restriction requirements. They all provide sufficient skill points so that a player can avoid having to get the stuck Duck and Cover! in Dead Money, can avoid having to get two skill books from every Workbench crate, and can complete That Lucky Old Sun any way they please, while still having enough points to max every skill.
Maxxed Builds
There are 63 ways of assigning 50 SPECIAL points to generate 293 skill points.
There are 10 ways of assigning 57 SPECIAL points to generate 321 skill points.
1 10 9 10 10 8 9
1 10 10 9 10 8 9
1 10 10 10 10 7 9
1 10 7 10 10 10 9
1 10 8 9 10 10 9
1 10 9 8 10 10 9
1 10 10 7 10 10 9
1 10 8 10 10 9 9
1 10 9 9 10 9 9
1 10 10 8 10 9 9
These 73 builds either provide just enough skill points to max all skills while using the least SPECIAL or provide the maximum possible skill points from the SPECIAL points available. They may not however produce a character that is particularly playable due to the extremely low Strength.
Another possible build - however somewhat restrictive in gear - for making a nearly perfect character would be:
Starting SPECIALS:
5 4 7 4 9 4 7
Starting traits: - Four Eyes/Small Frame
This gives you +3 PER/+1 LCK with "lucky shades", found in the Legion Safehouse. And +1 AGI:
5 7 7 4 9 5 8
Add Implants:
6 8 8 5 10 6 9
Add Intensive Training:
8 (+2) 8 9 (+1) 9 (+4) 10 9 (+3) 9
Recommended gear:
Boones Beret, Stealth Suit Mk II
Or:
Atomic-valence tri-radii-oscillator, T-45d power armor
Final SPECIALS:
STR: 8/10
PER: 10/8
END: 9/10
CHA: 9
INT: 10
AGI: 10/9
LCK: 9
The nature of above setup allows for a well-rounded character, with 100 in all skills (if you take care to not max skills out before you have taken a good deal of available skillbooks). At the same time, the equipment as well as Intensive Training can also be switched around for personal preference, as to easily make the character either Melee/Unarmed focused, or Explosives/Energy/Guns focused.
Useful hints as to getting around the trickiest parts of creating this setup:
1. Get the Int implant before you reach level 3 (Read the note below the segment below)
2. Pickpocket all NCR soldiers to acquire at least 50 dog tags, turn them in at Cottonwood cove in order to reach "Liked" status with the Legion, and when you go to Caesar, get access to the Legion Safehouse.
Complete this after having obtained Boone, but having parted ways with him before you start turning in dog tags. Having him as an active companion turns all legion hostile on sight. Doing it in the following manner allows you to obtain Boone, without having to waste quests to increase your standing with NCR/lower your standing with Legion, potentially baring you from completing Boones companion quest. Instead you are merely warned to "not let it get any further" when you return to Boone, having obtained the lucky shades... How lucky indeed.
The best way to achieve a character with maxxed skills may be to work out in advance what apparel your character will be wearing, as certain equipment can boost SPECIAL stats e.g. if your character will always be wearing +1 PER headgear then one Intense Training could be saved while still generating the same skill point total. When you have worked out the final SPECIAL you can then calculate the skill points it will provide, from where you can work out how many skill books are required. A player should also remember that as the skill books in Honest Hearts are randomly generated these should be collected before all levelling points have been assigned or the player will be left trying to get specific skill books from the random loot, which can take many, many reloads - and not every skill book has a chance of appearing.
Note on implants: *Although 7 SPECIAL implants are available, in order to get the maximum skill points from levelling up a player needs to have an INT of 10 before level 2. To get this while using all 7 implants would require the player to get to New Vegas Medical Clinic with 4000 caps while still at level 2 and with an INT of 9 so they could buy the Intelligence implant before leveling up, which is probably possible but also probably not how most players would want to play. It also rules out using the perk doubling exploit.
It is possible to get the Intelligence implant before reaching level 2. It requires the player to be very careful not to kill anything, complete any quests, or complete any challenges. To get the 4,000 caps required for the implant is quite difficult, but can be done by collecting the either the Goodsprings or Nuclear Test Site snow globe, running to Freeside through the normal path whilst not killing anything, winning 2,000 playing 9 or less hands of blackjack at the Atomic Wrangler (to avoid completing the Double Down challenge) going into the Lucky 38, collecting the Nuclear Test Site snow globe, giving both snow globes to Jane, then buying the implant. Be careful not to discover too many locations, as they give 10 exp per location. This is made easier with the Skilled trait, as it decreases exp gained
Note: You can safely reach level 2, as you will receive 15 skillpoints the first level. It is only if you reach level 3 that you will receive 14 points. Also, collecting 4,000 caps can easily be done by gambling with No-Bark to first get a reasonable amount of caps, and subsequently using the slots at the Atomic Wrangler. All in all, as difficult a venture.
Videos[]
- This Video will show how to set your SPECIALS to get Max Skills and double set of perks at level 30, 35, 40, and 45.
Maxed skills with Logan's Loophole[]
I added a note to the main page that noted that even with complete optimization, with Logan's Loophole you will be exactly 19 skill points short of maximization. To avoid cluttering the main page and to have a place to document my calculations (in case anyone wants a "citation needed"), I put them all here:
We start with the necessary 1300 and subtract the 89 skill books from the entire reach of the game (with Comprehension), leaving us with 944 required skill points. With an intelligence of 10, this leaves us with 509 skill points. With Educated taken at level 4, this brings us down to 457. This remaining number must come from initial character creation and various perks/traits.
Taking Skilled as the other trait reduces our remaining number to 392. Our start-of-game tagging reduces that to 347.
SPECIAL of St 1, Pe 8, En 7, Ch 4, In 9, Ag 3, Lu 8. The stat allocation here is "optimal." It maximizes the SPECIAL stats that provide 6 skill points per stat: Perception and Intelligence affect 3 skills, Luck affects all skills every odd point (average of 6.5). The rest is dumped into Endurance since each point of Endurance effectively grants at least 6 skill points via implants (4 skill points from Unarmed and Survival, then anywhere from an additional 2 to 13 via implant). Perception and Intelligence are below 10 because implants and perks will get them to 10. These starting SPECIAL scores yield 212 skill points, reducing our remainder to 135.
Then, buy an implant for each SPECIAL score, the Intelligence one before level 3. The Strength implant gives 2 skill points, the Perception gives 6, the Endurance gives 4, Charisma gives 4, Intelligence gives 6, Agility gives 4, and Luck gives 13, all for a total of 39, reducing our remainder to 96.
Upon completing Old World Blues, you gain 2 Strength from having your spine reattached, which grants an additional 4 points. Upon completing Lonesome Road, you can add increase a SPECIAL score by one; choosing Endurance, Charisma, or Agility will yield an additional 4. This leaves us with 88.
Taking Tag! immediately reduces that to 73. Solar Powered gives you +4 effectively when outside and in daytime. Walker Instinct also gives you +10 when outside. That leaves us with 59. Filling up all our remaining perks with Intense Trainings of either Agility or Charisma will give us 40 additional skill points. That leaves us shy of complete maximization by 19.
(Thelee 18:36, January 23, 2012 (UTC))