When you join BOS and finish tbe campaign with them, shouldn't yoy have to kill Nick Valentine?
When you join BOS and finish tbe campaign with them, shouldn't yoy have to kill Nick Valentine?
It's a blunder in my eyes because of their reasoning. They reason Acadia isn't a threat because it's just a group of synths which ain't threats cause they're isolated. However when they find a bad egg they throw away the afore mentioned reason. Both are in line with the BoS's doctrine, I just believe the should've sticked with the fist reasoning and executed DIMA.
Your hypothesis is that the BOS only responds those who are threats.
The flaw is not in their reasoning, it is in your hypothesis- one supported only by speculation and inference and not any quoted statements from the actual game about BOS doctrine.
The hypothesis is simply not predictive. I recommend you discard it.
The quote: "The Brotherhood does not kill innocents. It doesn't matter what kind of tech they're sitting on. If they aren't shooting at you, leave them alone." - Danse. The BoS has openly said many a time over their goal is to eliminate threats to humanity. The majority of time this is true. Synths are threats because they are the greatest form of spyware and humanoid soldier. Going back to the bear example, Acadia is akin to a bear in a self made cage. Still dangerous, but mostly neutralized. That's what I was meaning. Looking at the BoS's history they killed the Master, the Enclave, the Calculator, the Enclave again, and are now fighting the Institute. Considering the past they seem to have a good eye for threats. My reasoning is backed up by the evidence.
Here's a question for you Knife Maker. You claim the Brotherhood of Steel is only interested in genocide of Ghouls and Super Mutants because they exist, rather than them being threats. Yet... the Midwestern Chapter actively recruits both species into their ranks. Some even holding major ranks like Paladin. Explain to me how that constitutes genocidal intolerance?
(in reference to What? Military operations are necessarily disproportionate?)
As I said, in the wasteland there is only total war. From the BoS perspective, all Synths at Acadia present the threat Dima has willing perpetuated. Remember, this is still a wasteland where theft is a capital offense, the BoS offering no quarter is not an outlandish response reserved for tinpot warlords. Even the inhabitants of Far Harbor can, depending on player actions, lay siege to Acadia, leaving no survivors. And the people of Far Harbor have no great codex or oath to keep, it is simply their way of removing the threat. The complete eradication of the enemy is what prevents the perpetuation of the conflict. I do not believe this to the best outcome by far, but it is evidence that wasteland remains a harsh place.
"Well, it was not impossible in the NCR."
Were California to be on the east coast, that would be pertinent; however, there is no great authority on the east coast.
As for "strongmen," the BoS did not create the absence of order in the Capital Wasteland, they simply arrive to find chaos the natural state of being. Just as it was in Pittsburg. While the exact state of current affairs in the CW is up in the air, when last we saw it, Lyons' BoS was redistributing clean water to wasteland. And, if the Prydwen terminals are to be believed, Maxon himself gained further recognition for defeating a new, organized mutant threat. None of that is destabilization.
The same is true of the Commonwealth; the BoS literally arrive en masse during the events of the game. Whatever ills have befallen the Commonwealth, had nothing to do with the BoS arriving or Maxon. And trust me, I would love a reason to tear into the ills of Maxon, but in this case, at least, there is no blood on his hands.
I agree that the Institute has worked to destroy any chance of that, and the death of the CPG was the single greatest blow to an organized government. If you want to see the catalyst for fragmented society in the Commonwealth, you've already acknowledged the single greatest factor.
At the time of F4, there remains no organized group of people to make up a legitimate "civilian control." Who would you have the BoS yield their authority to in Commonwealth? The mayor of Diamond City? Surely the man ( or rather the Synth operative and destabilizing agent for the Institute) who exiled the ghouls from the city is a good rational choice for the leader of the BoS army. Or maybe you would rather pick one of the dozens of small farmers, whose only resume maintaining a single farm.
Ghoul Slayer- Irrelevant quote. By Danse's thinking, the verb "kill" cannot be used with a machine. The BOS and Danse don't regard the Acadians to be people, so to their way of thinking it is not genocide.
Justaguy: The OP asked about BOS policy to Nick, and so policies of other factions of BOS outside of FO4's commonwealth are irrelevant. As amply documented in the wiki, there are many other such factions , with competing rationales for their behavior.
Dyre- "As I said, in the wasteland there is only total war."
You can play Fallout4 any way you wish. But if you are saying that everyone has to play it as a total war situation, your statement is false. For example, my character uses the knockdown framework mod and nonlethal weapons. I play through and all factions survive, living more or less in harmony. I will set aside your dubious suggestion that "total war" somehow sidestep proportionality. It is a matter of military science that policies of collective responsibility creates bad outcomes from a military perspective. I don't think you are interested in whether that is a fact or why, so I won't pursue it.
Which civilian authority? Of course Diamond City. It has an executive, legislative branch (the council is only in suspension) functioning judiciary (One option is to put McDonough on trial). In the Quest "In Sheep's clothing", the Mayor can be discovered. What comes after that? If I were interested in mod'ing, such a mod would allow citizens to elect a new mayor who would accept the ghouls back in, establish a constitution for the commonwealth with DC as its capitol. The City council would be restarted by a newly elected mayor, and a constitution established. The brotherhood can either submit to civilian control with Danny Sullivan as the Mayor's chief of Commonwealth defense or will be declared enemies of the new commonwealth democracy. The Minutemen and Railroad are offered the same choices.
If you use a mod for nonlethal playthroughs, then your conclusion simply isn't canonical. Furthermore, he is discussing the BoS policy on Nick, yes. However, you have long abandoned that in favour of saying the Brotherhood is a genocidal faction in total. So, to dismiss my statement does nothing but prove your bias against the Brotherhood.
^^ Irrelevent? Your words were "Your hypothesis is that the BOS only responds those who are threats...The hypothesis is simply not predictive. I recommend you discard it." The quote shows the BoS will not attack those they do not see as threats. And I already stated it is not genocide in their eyes.
I take your reliance on mods as a conceit of your arguments, especially in reference some hypothetical mod that does not exist.
Whatever interest you have in creating a mod to spare the wasteland turmoil, is not evidence of a trustworthy, canonical civil authority worthy of the BoS yielding authority. Unless you willing to accept that the exile of all the ghouls was a reasonable step in the governance of the city. I certainly do not believe so, and given your already stated high value for the life of Synths, I doubt you would condone the decision either. I stand by my statement.
While I respect your want and desire to use mods that affect the general playstyle of the game to fit your needs, knockdown framework and non-lethal weapons are not canonical. For someone who previously used quite detail quotes in their argument, I am surprised you resort to player made content as the last bastion of your argument. To this point, I offer you this: I prefer to use Danse Dilemma mod which allows the SS to challenge Maxon for the fate of the BoS moral identity. Given that such a mod exists that removes many of the questionable beliefs of the BoS, you have nothing to protest because they no longer have the zeal of Maxon leading them onwards. My choice of mod is no less canonical than yours, and unlike the hypothetical mod you pitched, it actually exists.
Additionally, if the peaceful outcome in which all factions more or less live in peace is the one you described in a different thread, wherein you use console commands to manipulate the game, that is just as noncanonical as your use of mods.
Play how you want, but just because there's a tilde key, does not mean it is a fair representation of the game or the narrative of the game. It is as relevant as stating the SS is the tallest person in the wasteland, simply because you altered the players scale.