Are we awake, or are we dreaming that we are awake? [closed]

Question

What is the difference between our dreams and our so called awakened state? Are they not both being witnessed by the same "awareness"? Do they not both feel real as we are experiencing them, and are they not both temporary experiences... Even now, we are in a dream, dreaming that we are awake!

Answer 1

Are we awake, or are we dreaming that we are awake?

We know only three states viz., waking, dreaming and deep-sleep. If we are unaware of another 'unknown-state', we can't say that we are dreaming. Until the realization we will take this idea as utter nonsense. It is unimaginable. But when you realize that 'unknown-state", you would also say that 'I was ignorant of myself'...'I was as in a dream'...'I was 'dreaming' that I am awake'. But this dream and the word you used in the question are not the same because the former contains both stated of this material world.

And when you try to teach others (though it can't be taught like other subjects) about this state, you may begin your statement with 'we'.

In order to distinguish such men from others who are still unaware about that state people often use the term 'the enlightened'. By using this term it is clear that others have no correct insight.

For more details:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya

2. https://www.sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=751

3. https://www.sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=752

I believe you have got a few ides about the fourth state.

Here are my answers to your each question. (In this I didn't mean our normal awakened state. So don't be confused):

What is the difference between our dreams and our so called awakened state?

In a dream, the dreamer and all the things or persons involved in it are felt as different even though they are not different. The case is different in the so called awakened state.

Are they not both being witnessed by the same "awareness"?

Yes. In duality, the witnessed and awareness would not be felt as one and the same. The word 'duality' itself shows that there is difference.

Do they not both feel real as we are experiencing them,

Yes.

... and are they not both temporary experiences?

You may say so. But the two different experiences prove the difference -- the permanence behind transience.

[In this last question if your implication is our dreaming state and awakened state, the answer would be 'Yes'.]

Answer 2

Merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but...

But if you cannot already make the distinction, how can you meaningfully ask the question? And who is "we" in this claim? This is most famously dealt with in Descartes' cogito ergo sum and in various "brain in a vat" or "matrix" scenarios, but here verges on solipsism.

While there may be no absolute logical proof that you do not exist merely in my unbroken dream, the distinctions between dreaming, dreamless sleep, and waking life appear to be easily recognized by all humans in all cultures at all times, if with varying interpretations.

To challenge that pragmatic case, founded upon a rather universal consensus, you should provide evidence of at least some subset of people who claim they are always dreaming or, what amounts to the same thing, never sleep and dream.

Consciousness organizes itself by limitations, such as those called sensible "objects." The sets of limitations imposed upon consciousness in dreams contrasts sharply from those in waking consciousness. And each state includes limitations on the other, as when we struggle to stay awake. As for woke consciousness, that is a separate, noncartesian issue.