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I wrote an answer to a poorly written question.

I provided a possible answer but added a disclaimer to state that the symptoms described in the question can have many causes. And the only way to find the actual root cause would be to create an MCVE.

This information is important for other readers with the same symptoms. They should not be lead to believe that this is the solution to their symptoms.

A user removed this disclaimer from this (and several other answers). This seems downright destructive to me and does not improve these answers. So I reverted these changes only to have them undone by a moderator.

My questions:

  1. Can anyone explain why this information is removed?

  2. On the question I see that there is a dispute, and that it is being resolved, but what that dispute is, or how it is being resolved is unclear. As a party to the dispute, it seems weird that I'm not involved in it's resolution.

  3. How do I appeal decisions by a moderator? Or get clarification? How does this even work? There seems to be very little information provided by Stack Overflow here.

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    If you have to state "But based information [sic] provided it is not actually possible to answer this question." in an answer then you shouldn't be using the answer feature, you should be using the vote to close feature and/or comment on the question to have the OP provide additional details. The text removed (in your answer) appears to be noise to me.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 18:43
  • Not attempting to answer the question, that is not very helpful as all. What purpose does that serve? Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:06
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    @M.P.Korstanje Making sure we can provide information that is helpful instead of just information that might be helpful or completely useless or even harmful depending on the details omitted. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:08
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    Closing a question serves to stop unhelpful answers (and let's the OP know they need to improve the question). Commenting for more details helps give the OP directions to improve their question so it can be answered.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:10
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    If I took that approach there would be no answers at all around Cucumber. This is the typical question quality in this category. I believe that no-answers would be objectively worse then potentially helpful answers. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:13
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    "This is the typical question quality in this category." Then time to set some standards. The rest of the site has expectations of users providing an MRE; [cucumber] should be no different. Stop guessing what the answer the answer is, and start knowing what it is. Then your answers will be useful to many people in the future, rather than none.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:16
  • When you say none, are you being hyperbolic? There is the potential for at least one person being helped by it, the original asker. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:26
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    @M.P.Korstanje -We are looking for a larger impact than a party of 1. So I would say Thom is not being hyperbolic but rather serious. Regardless setting a high expectation on high quality questions should be something you should be striving for not trying to hindrance Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 22:40

1 Answer 1

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First, from the comments here:

Not attempting to answer the question, that is not very helpful as all.

This is a completely wrong mindset for using Stack Overflow. The way we help is not by "attempting to answer the question" regardless of quality. That is a service provided by a discussion forum or a help center, and Stack Overflow is not those things. If you would prefer to "help" people in such an environment, there are countless such places all over the internet, and you are welcome to use them.

But at Stack Overflow, as described in the tour, we are working to build a usable, searchable reference library. People are helped when they find a relevant Q&A on Stack Overflow using a search engine, and therefore don't have to ask. Asking directly is, in essence, a bug report against Stack Overflow claiming that the site lacks a question it should have.

If I took that approach there would be no answers at all around Cucumber.

Nothing prevents you, and in fact it is encouraged to share your knowledge by asking a question that does meet quality standards, just to have a place to put the appropriate answer. Especially if it covers a problem that happens all the time, but only to beginners who cannot ask a good question.

Thus, we can now understand:

I wrote an answer to a poorly written question.

This was your first mistake. If you think information is missing from a question then you should vote to close it rather than attempting to write an answer. You were given the privilege, over 7k reputation ago, for a reason: your experience is supposed to have trained you to recognize the site's standards and appreciate the value of upholding them.

And the only way to find the actual root cause would be to create an MCVE.

In other words, the question was missing an MCVE, when it required one. That is a textbook case for the Needs Debugging Details closure reason.

As an aside: please also do not add a second answer to a question in order to point out a totally separate problem from what you pointed out in the first answer. It is acceptable to write multiple answers if they give different approaches to solving the same problem. But if you are pointing out different problems, that just shows further awareness of problems with the question. In particular, questions like this should be closed as "Needs more Focus". Keep in mind that Stack Overflow does not provide a help desk, and questions posted here are not support tickets to get someone else's code project to work. If there are multiple things wrong in the original code base, it is the OP's responsibility before posting to a) realize this; b) choose one specific thing to ask about; c) provide an MCVE for "what's wrong" questions (or a proper specification for "how do I" questions).

This information is important for other readers with the same symptoms. They should not be lead to believe that this is the solution to their symptoms.

If a question is supposed to be about why those symptoms come up in a specific situation, then it does not matter that the same symptoms can also come up in a different situation.

People who only know the symptoms they encountered and have no idea about how to debug the problem, cannot benefit from someone else's "what is wrong here?" question. They need a separate "what do these symptoms indicate?" question, which may or may not be feasible for the format. (If there are fundamentally too many ways, that are too different from each other, to cause the same symptoms, then the approach won't work. I've tried it before.)

If you really want to be helpful, self-answer your own question about the error. Frame it as a how-to instead of a "debugging" question. Maybe it could be something like "What do I need to do, to ensure that Cucumber can find and run my tests?". Maybe it could link to existing questions about specific things that went wrong / were not done (properly) in other cases.

Can anyone explain why this information is removed?

Because "meta" content of this sort is unacceptable in answers, full stop. Answers are supposed to answer the question, no more, no less. If that isn't possible, then don't try - and especially don't use the answer section to write something that doesn't qualify.

On the question I see that there is a dispute, and that it is being resolved, but what that dispute is, or how it is being resolved is unclear. As a party to the dispute, it seems weird that I'm not involved in it's resolution.

This is boilerplate text when posts are locked. The post is locked to avoid a rollback war - as is standard practice when a moderator gets involved. The "dispute" is implicitly about whether the answer should contain the content that was removed from your answer, and the current "resolution" is that it shall not.

There was initially a shorter lock, and promptly after that expired, you edited the post again to repeat the meta complaint (rephrased, but still fundamentally the same issue).

How do I appeal decisions by a moderator? Or get clarification? How does this even work?

By posting here. You should have done this before re-editing the answer, ignoring the point of the original lock.

Keep in mind that appeals usually don't go well because:

  1. Moderators here generally know what they're doing;

  2. There is a ton of sympathy for moderators on Stack Overflow because they are almost literally one-in-a-million users;

  3. Generally the policy is pretty straightforward and you are expected (especially as an established user with an account over 9 years old) to understand fundamentals like this;

  4. Complaints related to rollback wars especially don't usually go well for the author, because the site is supposed to be a collaborative project (your license of the content to the community includes the ability to make modifications, for a reason).

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    Cheers! I appreciate the long form explanation. It seems I have misunderstood the purpose of Stackoverflow. Though now I do fail to see it's purpose all together. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:26
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    In case you missed the edit, the first few paragraphs now attempt to explain its purpose rather explicitly. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:27
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    The goal of the site is to be a repository of useful and helpful (programming based) knowledge, @M.P.Korstanje . Unclear questions and guessed answers don't help with that, as such content is unlikely to be helpful to future visitors. Guessed answers can be wildly wrong, meaning someone else who finds what they "think" is a similar problem to what they encounter is actually very different and the answer is quite unhelpful. I can vouch that I've been led down some very large rabbit holes by such answers in areas I'm not an SME in, and it's actually very frustrating.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:32
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    @ThomA So I believe myself to be an expert in this domain. I'm the primary author of one of the frameworks in question and a contributor to the other. My answers are not wild guesses. With a disclaimer, a most likely answer is valuable now and in the future. But with the now removed disclaimer, future users will be lead astray. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:42
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    "My answers are not wild guesses." "But based information [sic] provided it is not actually possible to answer this question." With respect, those statements contradict each other, @M.P.Korstanje . It might be a well informed guess, but it's still a guess.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:44
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    @M.P.Korstanje If you want to avoid leading future users astray, you do that by closing the question until it's edited to include the necessary information (or write your own self-answered question, as Karl suggests), rather than writing an "answer" in which you explicitly admit that the question is unanswerable in its current state. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:47
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    @KarlKnechtel, I did miss the edit. Thanks again. It seems that Stackoverflow has changed its purpose over time and I have been caught out by it. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:54
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    @M.P.Korstanje The rules aren't any different for old questions. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 19:59
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    No, sure, but what do we do practically now? This is not a question about the rules. But rather about the weird state this answer is in now. Surely I can not delete it without attracting more moderator ire Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:05
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    Unless the asker comes back and fixes the problems with the question, it's a lost cause that the roomba will take care of in a few weeks, and you should focus on one of Karl's other points, that if the content of your answer is a valuable addition to the Q&A repository, make a self-answered question that doesn't have the same problems. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:11
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    What is the Roomba (in this context)? Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:19
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    Side note: You, or I, or anyone can be the God-Emperor of SMEs (Subject Mater Expert) on a topic, but if future askers cannot draw the connections between a poorly conceived or crafted question and a good answer, the answer is not useful, and as Thom A points out, possibly detrimental. That said, there is a Reversal badge for brilliant answers that manage to fill in the gaps in a weak question and redeem it in the community's eyes. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:19
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    Where can I read more about this? I've been here for 9 years but I've clearly missed a few things. Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 20:23
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    "If a question is supposed to be about why those symptoms come up in a specific situation, then it does not matter that the same symptoms can also come up in a different situation." Ehhhhhh, I sort of disagree. Phrasing along the lines of "Note that this only applies if _______; this error can occur for a variety of reasons." can indeed be useful to later readers, who may be in one of the other situations. I would prefer that it be more specific than the original phrasing (which just said that the question needed more info), but I think a note like that of some form is legitimate.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 22:10
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    @CharlesRoddie I assume you mean this answer of yours which is currently locked. Looking at the history, I do not see why you insist the text "I will answer your question, but in doing so answer a more important question of how to ask a question." should be present. Removing it does not seem to have any negative impact on the answer. In fact, having it there seems confusing to me. So, the removal seems to fall under "Clarify meaning without changing it." - the post is more clear, there is no change in the meaning.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Nov 8, 2023 at 13:38

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