Talk:Old Kia Kima: Difference between revisions

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Hi @Potscamp:! I just received your email, and I wanted to address it here on the Talk page. The email I received was: "Who are you and why do you think you have a right to edit the article for OLD KIA KIMA? I represent Old Kia Kima. I wrote the original article. I am the website administrator for Old Kia Kima."

First off, welcome to Wikipedia! And thank you for writing this article! As you know, Wikipedia is dedicated to collaborative editing, and as stated in WP:OWNERSHIP, "an organization that is the subject of an article does not own the article, and has no right to dictate what the article may say." My edits were not intended to be adverse and were intended to improve the article. For example, the additional categories I added increase the visibility of the article, and the changes to the infobox help promote uniformity with other similar articles. We also don't need to use Redirect template for "OKKPA" since there is no other article currently that the abbreviation could refer to. Do you have issues with any specific edits I made? Let's build consensus here on the Talk page. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 18:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Deflagro: Please help me out here by explaining why you are more qualified than I to edit the article and why your edits take precedence over my original article. Potscamp (talk) 19:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Potscamp: I'm not saying that I'm more qualified or that my edits take precedence. But you can't simply revert edits because they were made by someone not affiliated with your organization. We're all working together here, and I'm trying to help improve the article. That's just how Wikipedia works with the collaborative editing process. Again, if you have specific issues with specific edits, I'm happy to discuss them here and we can build a consensus, but it seems you reverted edits simply because it was someone else making them. That goes against Wikipedia's spirit and policies. I'm here to help out, and I'm not trying to attack you or your contribution. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 20:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deflagro: Since we seem to be on an equal level I propose putting my original article back in place and for any specific issues you have with the original article you can provide more of an edit explanation than "Major clean up". Potscamp (talk) 21:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The original Old Kia Kima article is about the current camp which did not exist until 2002. The edit by @Deflagro: makes the article to be about the old camp Kia Kima which existed prior to 1963. Potscamp (talk) 12:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Potscamp: Please, do not revert edits while we're trying to build consensus on the Talk page. Your most recent edit ([1]) was another manual partial reversion to the "original" article. This is bordering on WP:EDITWAR territory. I understand you're the webmaster for your organization. But your organization does not own the article, and anyone can engage in collaborative editing to the article. It seems your main objection is to the inclusion of a link to Kia Kima Scout Reservation in the lede and the "Main Article" template in the History section? Based on the Arkansas Register listing, this campground is notable because it is the former site of Kia Kima Scout Reservation. Why do you feel linking to the Kia Kima Scout Reservation article changes the scope of the article? What about the other edits you're reverting such as the city in the infobox and the formatting fixes? Please, let's work together on this. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 02:44, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The article today looks good as it is, but could use some expansion. @Potscamp:, @Deflagro: is right about WP:OWN. --evrik ^(talk) 18:11, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Deflagro: I seem to be doing everything wrong. The seemingly simple concept of Wikipedia is so full of rules and regulations it takes a lawyer to understand them all. My main objection is to your lede. The article as I wrote it is about the current entity known as Old Kia Kima and should be addressed in the present tense. If you want to change the article to be about the camp that was the predecessor to KKSR then you will have to change the name of the article to reference whatever the camp was called before 1963. I feel certain the name Old Kia Kima was not used until well after KKSR moved upriver. If you want to change the article to be about the camp prior to 1963 then I will bow out and you can have it. Potscamp (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Potscamp, the article can be about both the old camp and the new camp. --evrik ^(talk) 19:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Potscamp: You're definitely not doing everything wrong--you wrote a good article! I don't mean to change the scope of the article, and you definitely have more knowledge of the subject than I do (which is limited to the two articles and some cursory google searches). As an outside reader without knowing anything about it, it seemed like the history of the location is tied to Kia Kima Scout Reservation (and I agree, that article seems a better place for the in-depth history of the Boy Scout program at the location), which is why I thought it makes sense to a reader to reference that and have a link to the other article in the lede paragraph. And under History to have a Main Article template that links to the other article for readers who want to read more about the history. What would you think of something like this for a lede: "Old Kia Kima is a youth campground near Hardy, Sharp County, Arkansas, that is listed on the Arkansas Register of Historic Places for local historical significance and local architectural style. The campground was previously the site of Kia Kima Scout Reservation, a Boy Scouts of America summer camp, and many of the historic buildings have since been restored in the original architectural style." Also, is Cherokee Village, Arkansas more accurate than "near Hardy"? It's hard to tell. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 20:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]